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1. Embed this notice
   waltercool (waltercool@pl.slash.cl)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:17:58 JST waltercool
   Yeah no.
   
   Hope they go broke.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:18:09 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @waltercool what the fuck
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:22:23 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @waltercool
     
     > UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses
     
     https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-news/firefox-terms-of-use/
     
     Every goddamn time someone says "WHAT THE FUCK, YOU EVIL PRICKS", it's always "People were a little confused!"
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     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:23:32 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     I may be able to translate:
     
     > When you type something in and ask us to send it somewhere or to retrieve something, we will do so. We don't know where the fuck it's going or coming from or what it's being used for in any specific instance, so we made this license as wide in scope as possible.
     
     Unless they have data collection policies that contradict that, I assume that's what it means. This is a cursory read though. I may need to read it 20 more times to really wrap my head around it.
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:23:37 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @waltercool People are retarded
     pistolero likes this.
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     prettygood (prettygood@socially.drinkingatmy.computer)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:25:09 JST prettygood

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @waltercool
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and pistolero like this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:55:27 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ?? Humpleupagus ??
     @Humpleupagus @waltercool Yeah, I think it's probably that they're being overly broad, but give it to them and they'll use it.
     ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:57:05 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • prettygood
     @prettygood @waltercool I'm on Seamonkey mostly.
   • Embed this notice
     waltercool (waltercool@pl.slash.cl)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:57:11 JST waltercool

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p That's their explanation, but it literally says: "You Give Mozilla Certain Rights and Permissions"
     
     ...When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox
     
     This is not optional.
     
     https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/legal/terms/firefox/
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     イリエ (irie@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:58:20 JST イリエ

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @waltercool @p not an expert but "to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content" could literally mean "the browser uses the information you put into it in order to surf the net." If that's the case, then their law department could not have used words more confusing and aggravating.
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     redneonglow (redneonglow@varishangout.net)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:58:36 JST redneonglow

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @waltercool But it's actually much much worse than just spyware. It's the Chinese social credit score for the Internet.
     
     "Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations."
     
     The acceptable use policy includes:
     
     You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to:
     
     * Degrade, intimidate, incite violence against, or encourage prejudicial action against someone or a group based on age, gender, race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, disability, geographic location or other protected category,
     
     * Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that includes graphic depictions of sexuality or violence,
     
     * Violate the copyright, trademark, patent, or other intellectual property rights of others
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and pistolero like this.
   • Embed this notice
     sapphire (sapphire@shortstacksran.ch)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:58:57 JST sapphire

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • イリエ
     @irie @p @waltercool usually when legal departments use words that are intentionally confusing it’s because they want it to be confusing
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     redneonglow (redneonglow@varishangout.net)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:59:13 JST redneonglow

     in reply to

     • ninja8tyu
     • pistolero
     @ninja8tyu @p @waltercool same here. I use firefox sync with firefox on my android devices, it would be very difficult to completely unplug from mozilla. Plus thunderbird/k-9 mail because my email provider's web interface is annoying. But switching to librewolf on my desktops and laptop is a good start.
     pistolero likes this.
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     ninja8tyu (ninja8tyu@varishangout.net)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 14:59:14 JST ninja8tyu

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • redneonglow
     @redneonglow @p @waltercool well that's great
     
     i'm in the faggotfox ecosystem a bit too deep, fuckin' hell
   • Embed this notice
     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:01:34 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • prettygood
     • pistolero
     I do, but how long will the upstream last at this point? Who are the browser devs and will they keep going after the inevitable crash of Shitzilla?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:10:37 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     @djsumdog @prettygood @waltercool
     
     > Who are the browser devs and will they keep going after the inevitable crash of Shitzilla?
     
     That didn't happen 15 years ago? You don't remember that before Chrome, they had 30% of the browser market share? They're at 3% now.
     
     It's not going to happen again. Google is the main finding source for the Mozilla Foundation, because kicking a few mil a month towards someone else's browser keeps the antitrust suits at bay.
   • Embed this notice
     waltercool (waltercool@pl.slash.cl)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:15:54 JST waltercool

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     • pistolero
     @p @djsumdog @prettygood Well, that's also kinda fcked up, because DOJ wants Google to sell Chrome.
     
     If that happens, no more money from Google.
     
     https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/doj-seeks-to-break-up-google-forcing-sale-of-web-browser-chrome-sale-as-monopoly-punishment
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:19:20 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     @waltercool @djsumdog @prettygood Wonder if that'll survive Trump.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: and prettygood like this.
   • Embed this notice
     waltercool (waltercool@pl.slash.cl)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:29:50 JST waltercool

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     • pistolero
     @p @djsumdog @prettygood Hope so, wanna see this going full effect.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:31:50 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     @waltercool @djsumdog @prettygood It would be nice, but I think most of those companies are going to stay where they are until they're obsoleted, so it's better to just try to make them obsolete and assume that no one is coming to save us.
     google_xp.jpeg
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     ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:32:38 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     I agree. That's why I'd want up see the data collection policy / side. That would inform about how concerning the scope of that license is.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:38:01 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ?? Humpleupagus ??
     @Humpleupagus @waltercool
     
     > That's why I'd want up see the data collection policy / side.
     
     At least recently, the data collection stuff is all open-source, usually Python, sometimes JS or Rust. In theory, you could run your own entire Mozilla infra, but good luck getting all of those horrors deployed: they're basically as insular as the browser's codebase, where they keep churning out shit that they think would be useful but which in practice is never used outside Mozilla projects.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:49:53 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • ?? Humpleupagus ??
     • pistolero
     @Humpleupagus @waltercool Like these fellers:
     
     https://github.com/mozilla/application-services
     
     https://github.com/mozilla/performance-data
     
     https://github.com/mozilla/bigquery-etl
     
     https://github.com/mozilla/mozilla-datahub-ingestion
     
     "2.4k repositories" (thank you, jithub, for shortening four digits into two digits, a "." and a "k") at https://github.com/orgs/mozilla/repositories?type=all
     
     Good luck enumerating them and understanding how they all fit together, let alone actually running all of them in production with appropriate hostnames and maintaining parallel infrastructure and a configuration distribution system so that all of your copies of Firefox use them, and then keeping up with changes upstream so that when they spin up a new service, you are using your own version.
     
     It's the worst kind of abuse of open-source.
     
     Fred Brooks said in his book that a project's structure tends to reflect the structure of the organization that created it. Draw your own conclusions about Mozilla, but having had my hands in the Firefox codebase before Eich was ousted, it seems like the organization is massive, disorganized, and insular.
   • Embed this notice
     waltercool (waltercool@pl.slash.cl)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:51:09 JST waltercool

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     • pistolero
     @p @djsumdog @prettygood Let's face it, Google or Microsoft will never die.
     
     As long Google dominates the search engine, Analytics, Ads and Google Play, they can still fail hundred times and get yearly profit.
     
     Microsoft is too big to fail, they are into several business, virtually into every single government, schools, college or universities.
     
     Google being forced to sell Chrome will not kill them either.
     prettygood and pistolero like this.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:55:26 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     @waltercool @djsumdog @prettygood
     
     > Google or Microsoft will never die.
     
     I'm not banking on their deaths, but they rely on being fed this data and I do not want to feed the thing that is trying to destroy my way of life. They can turn into IBM: still huge and still malevolent, but if IBM fucks something up, it doesn't matter to me. They were effectively rendered obsolete in terms of their capacity to inflict evil on the world.
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     Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:55:31 JST Phantasm

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @waltercool
     It's from gaslighting: lecture 1.
     
     You actually don't understand what you read, you are just confused.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 15:57:51 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     @phnt @waltercool
     
     > It's from gaslighting: lecture 1.
     
     This is a thing you see in politics a lot, too. A party loses an election and that party spends a bunch of time fretting about how their "messaging" was wrong, not their policies. It's an aristocratic style of arrogance; big tech companies are the same way.
     privacypolicy.png
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     mothball蛾玉 (西洋巣酸の木) (moth_ball@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 16:09:10 JST mothball蛾玉 (西洋巣酸の木)

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • pistolero
     @p @phnt @waltercool Hence the whole "reproductive rights" thing
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 16:13:06 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Phantasm
     • mothball蛾玉 (西洋巣酸の木)
     @moth_ball @phnt @waltercool "Messaging" and "education" are euphemisms for propaganda.
     
     "We need to educate consumers about the benefits of bending over and spreading their cheeks. There's been a lot of confusion about our policy of slapping the soap out of your hand in the showers. For that, we apologize: we have a long way to go with our messaging."
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     Vivi Nella Verita (verita84@shit.poster.place)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 17:55:34 JST Vivi Nella Verita

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero

     @dcc @p @waltercool

     Too late, just moved to ungoogled-chromium

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     djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Friday, 28-Feb-2025 23:25:44 JST djsumdog

     in reply to

     • prettygood
     • pistolero
     IBM is certainly a dinosaur company, held up by ancient mega-customers, debt and sticky tacky. Under the shadow of whatever marketing budget they have left, they're probably under some legacy mode enterprise life support ... but .. they still massively influence the entire Linux landscape via Redhat and Pottering (although looking it up, seems he left for Microsoft ... so oddly enough, MS, IBM, Intel and other big tech all contribute monetarily to a significant piece of Linux development).
     
     But as far as my original question, yes I know Firefox has dropped from 1/3 of market share to next to nothing. That's not what I was getting at. There are still developers, paid for by Mozilla, who continue work on Firefox. Who are they? Where are they going to go? Will they continue to work on the core rendering engine, paid for by some other means? Will they give up and move on? Will there be 12 forks and a lot of shitty browsers for a while by people trying to keep up but barely can wrap their heads around that massive Gecko codebase, before distilling into 1 or 2 usable and maintained versions? (Honestly, not too unlike the original Netscape->Mozilla in the 2000s).
     
     We already lost Trident (when Edge moved to Chrome/Blink) and I wish Microsoft had at least open sourced it. I've compiled some of the early builds of Ladybird and it looks promising, but will it be enough to prevent the collapse of true browser engine choice?
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 01-Mar-2025 08:31:19 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • djsumdog
     • prettygood
     @djsumdog @waltercool @prettygood
     
     > Under the shadow of whatever marketing budget they have left,
     
     They
     > they're probably under some legacy mode enterprise life support
     
     Oh, no, not at all. Just dumped their consumer business. You don't stay on this list if you don't have money: https://top500.org/lists/top500/list/2024/11/ .
     
     > seems he left for Microsoft
     
     Microsoft has this long history of putting people in places to kill something and then hiring them after the earth is scorched. Maybe Lenny never left: maybe he was already working for Microsoft. How long was he at RedHat and some time after systemd started crashing servers he said "Oh, I just use it on my laptop, I've never operated a server before"?
     
     So there's the dose of :tinfoil:.
     
     > There are still developers, paid for by Mozilla, who continue work on Firefox. Who are they? Where are they going to go?
     
     Why would they go anywhere? Google's the company cutting the checks anyway. They are no longer tied to conventional business objectives: the company just has to exist and put out a browser that can reasonably be described as a competitor to Chrome, and they will continue to receive checks.
     
     > Will there be 12 forks and a lot of shitty browsers for a while by people trying to keep up but barely can wrap their heads around that massive Gecko codebase,
     
     I wouldn't trust anyone that was particularly attached to Gecko. The rendering engine used to work really hard to make sure that text was legible and it did an excellent job and webkit/Chrome never managed to get even close to pre-Servo Firefox, but they have discarded that and all the text looks like shit; there's not much to love about the code and there's no longer anything to love about the result.
     
     There are already 12 forks, though; I mean, I'm running Seamonkey.
     
     I think it is fine if browsers as currently imagined go away. I have this entire computer and anno domini $current_year browsers feel like playing the rail-shooter level of an otherwise fun game.
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     SilverDeth (silverdeth@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 01-Mar-2025 08:32:25 JST SilverDeth

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p ^ Taps the sign.
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      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Saturday, 01-Mar-2025 15:24:01 JST 

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @waltercool >We’ve made the hard decision to end our experiment with Mozilla.social and have shut down the Mastodon instance on December 17, 2024.
     Oh, I was aching to tag everyone on there and tell them they now hold a license to all my posts calling people niggers and are thus legally responsible for that.
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     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Saturday, 01-Mar-2025 15:33:52 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • 
     @mint @waltercool There's always https://fedilist.com/instance/social.rust-lang.org .
     
     Easier to tag everyone there: there are only two people, and one of them is just an RSS feed bot called 'rust'.
      likes this.