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   Arkana (arkana@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:07 JST Arkana
   American Comics used to be really popular and cool. First the "Comics Code Authority" stifled that and strangled all the life out of it. By the time of the 80's when people stopped caring about it the only things left were Superhero stories whose authors had no ownership of the comics they wrote and dragged on forever.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:50 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman what a shame. 50 years and nothing to show for it
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:50 JST Jonny

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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     I didn’t have it me too be a husband/father.
     IMG_6852.gif
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:51 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman whoa that's cool gramps
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:51 JST Jonny

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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     If wouldn’t have been such a great pull out artist over the last 3 decades, I would be a gramps.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:52 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman also, how old are you?
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:52 JST Jonny

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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     50 next month.
     
     I had a box set of 4 hard cover classic Disney compilations. Here’s two of them.
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:53 JST Jonny

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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     I didn’t know there was a new one. I haven’t owned a tv in over 20 years.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:53 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman I have a tv and a blu ray player.
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:54 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman I said the new one, dawg
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     Branman65? (branman65@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:55 JST Branman65?

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     @Jonny @Arkana @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman I remember my family forcing me to watch the new peter man movie. It sucked
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:55 JST Jonny

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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Yikes. When did that come out? The Robin Williams one?
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     Arkana (arkana@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:56 JST Arkana

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     @adequate @JeffGrimesArt @Pawlicker @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman They hid Walt's condition from him during the last months of his life so he couldn't properly prepare beforehand. Since then it's been in a long slide down into jewish control. At least during Eisner's era they had good white writers and animators, just with jewish direction. That's why they could still create great movies. Afterwards they weeded out all the talent and just had yesmen and leftists so it's all trash
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:56 JST Jonny

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     @Arkana @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     The reboot of Mary Poppins was a fucking nightmarish tragedy too watch and pay money for.
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     adequately imperfect (adequate@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:57 JST adequately imperfect

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     @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @Pawlicker @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman He already was i think (((Eisner))) taking over his company started the motor.
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     Arkana (arkana@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:58 JST Arkana

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     @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman @Pawlicker I think most of it comes from this tumblr post
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     JeffGrimesArt (jeffgrimesart@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:58 JST JeffGrimesArt

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     Holy shit. Walt is rolling in his grave
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:59 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @wgiwf @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana The animation director's(?) notes on the cel version have a certain straightforward panache:

     For the cheek, no need to do more. That will be enough... she didn't swallow a hamster.

     IMPORTANT CENSORSHIP: Please raise the glass in her hand to make sure that the drink's level will cover the nipple.

     Here, the glass no longer hides anything, so it is IMPERATIVE to respect the framing in order to hide what is necessary.

     It is imperative that the water level hides the lower abdomen and that the window hides the chest (seen with Olivier (decor)). Thank you.

     IMPORTANT. THE FRAMING MUST TOTALLY HIDE THE NIPPLES.

     IMPORTANT: For censorship, it's imperative that the hands be well-placed.

     IMPORTANT: FRAME so that the nipples are COMPLETELY hidden.

     It's plain ol' standard practice for illustrators and animators to draw beyond the frame as well as to include what will be hidden by closer layers, after all.

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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:59 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @wan @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana I wonder if anything similar from Disney or Warner Bros has ever come out or if their corporate culture frowned upon such artistic practice?
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     Arkana (arkana@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:59 JST Arkana

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     @wgiwf @wan @berkberkman @Pawlicker Disney owns everything their artists and animators drew during their tenure, which includes a good amount of smut
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:02:59 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @Arkana @wgiwf @berkberkman @Pawlicker I've heard this, and I believe it, but I've never seen more than Internet scuttlebutt about it. Are there any closer sources that go into it?
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:00 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @wgiwf @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana To produce an animation from scratch, you must first bring forth a culture.
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:00 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @wan @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana I had that exact thing in mind. :kagerou_laugh:
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:01 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana @wan Maybe. Then again if we look at a lot of the underground sort of adult animation that came out in the day it's not something of any redeemable value. Maybe Tex Avery or someone like him had some unpublished drawing or something that are worthwhile.
     As one guy posted earlier: the Hays Code and its ilk has served the purpose of handing the depictions of the human form solely to the pornographers.
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:01 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana @wan Honestly, I don't mean disrespect to the greats of the time, manga is genuinely a better inspiration to take from if you want to reclaim the human form from porn, outside of classical methods, than the whole cartoon scene, in my opinion.
     There's a whole lot of cultural baggage and boomer perversion swept up in that scene that manga doesn't have. Not to say trying is impossible, but it seems like the culture will need to change a lot for it to work.
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:01 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @berkberkman @Pawlicker @Arkana @wan I envy the French in that they have a functional and sane cartoon and animation scene in their country in this sense.
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     Berk Berkman (berkberkman@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:02 JST Berk Berkman

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     @Pawlicker @Arkana @wan @wgiwf I often wondered if animation within American/Canadian productions had a similar altitude, where they drew/rendered/wrote the most wildest/sexiest stuff imaginable and later sanitized it immensely to be approved by the Hays Code (or those Standards & Practices or the MPAA). A few might've been left unscathed, but too bad a lot of it has a lot of snouts and fur.
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     Pawlicker (pawlicker@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:03 JST Pawlicker

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     @wan @Arkana @wgiwf The other interesting thing about NSFW games in Japan is simpler: when the Sega Saturn came out devs found One Weird Trick to make money: take a porno game and take the sex out of the game.
     
     Games like Desire, EVE Burst Error, Yu-No, and more ended up with Sega Saturn ports with the porn removed and just the story, and needless to say a game like Yu-No still was solid without the sex scenes. This continued onto the PS2 era for sure, and the PS2 had many "all ages" VN ports without the sex scenes (and then there were SFW VNs that solely focused on a story, like Steins Gate as well).
     
     Eventually this led to lots of money being made and some mainstream success, which would inevitably cross over into the western weeb circles. VNs are far more popular than they were a decade or a two ago, where they would either be obscure or the kind of games that some SomethingAwful writer would take the piss out of.
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:04 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @Pawlicker @Arkana @wgiwf Plenty in Japan do it for the money as well, by one route or the other. A doujinshi circle turning to porn because they're sick of eating the losses on their offset book runs is a cliché in certain self-referential works.
     
     What's different is that this all happens within a larger half-century-long vibe that itself comes from a different cultural base.
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     Pawlicker (pawlicker@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:04 JST Pawlicker

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     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     @wan @Arkana @wgiwf well there's also really high budget NSFW stuff, and doujin circles getting high budget like Type Moon. According to 16-bit sensation (the manga not the anime "adaptation") after an infamous incident in which a kid stole some random ass NSFW game and the boomers went Jack Thompson in the media over it, the NSFW industry both started to self-regulate but also that's when slowly the production values went up and tones shifted.
     
     I mean, you don't see devs like Alice Soft in the west, or many of the other ones throughout the eras like Elf, leaf, and more. Nor do you see people saying "wow this is a solid game except it has porn scenes but fuck it's a solid game", or treating western NSFW games as a cult thing like weird VHS era movies.
     
     To the west, porn games are always like what James Rolfe reviewed with the Atari Porn episode of AVGN, or meme tier games like Rapelay.
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:05 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     @wan @Arkana Interesting. Tbh the comic book scene prior to the dominance of manga is a foreign thing to me, on multiple levels, and the only real experience of comics before the current zietgiest is getting some Star Wars comics at the local store as a child; I never cared for superhero stuff even at that age.
     This is no dig at Bones, I've never read it, but the fact that the alternative western comic market is largely captured by Scholastic doesn't sit well with me at all. I don't think a large company dominant in the industry focused on children's media, which is an issue unto itself, can really support the artistic freedom that we praise in manga.
     There is a lot of work to still be done here to even approximate the artistic and mature creative quality that you can can find in even the smallest manga periodical. Also the possibility of a de-facto "Comics Code" forming in such an environment is worrying.
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:05 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     • Wolfgirl in Wheatfield
     @wgiwf @Arkana America also has no doujinshi scene (the sad, warped imitation that's had the term slapped over it as marketing doesn't count) in all its messy, porny, self-indulgent, IP-holders-looking-the-other-way glory. The guideposts that temper and blood a prospective mangaka who's publishing doujinshi (and almost all of them did, right back into the '80s, and still do) are the exact same things that would've/still do get an American doing the same thing turned into a smoking legal crater.
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     Pawlicker (pawlicker@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:05 JST Pawlicker

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     @wan @Arkana @wgiwf don't forget the fact that the nsfw artists in the West do it for the money and less because of the waifuism (some end up in more mainstream careers in the animation sphere but so many think patreon is the limit)
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:06 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @wgiwf @Arkana Comic books were also made using "over the wall" production lines that systematically kept any one person or small group of people from becoming too valuable or distinct.
     
     It's not now generally known, but newspaper comic artists – who generally owned their own IP, did their own work start to finish, and set their own direction – were considered to be leagues above those corralled in the comic book bullpens.
     
     The Comics Code Authority is much-decried now – it did have a terrible effect – but it's not the only reason we don't have an American equivalent to manga today.
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:06 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @wan @Arkana Add in the nonsensical distribution system, in comparison to monthly periodicals with multiple series running each issue in the case of manga, and you got yourself an industry incapable of adaption.
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     獣耳会社ｗａｎ (wan@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:06 JST 獣耳会社ｗａｎ

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     @wgiwf @Arkana I thought this video did a pretty good job of touching on some of the issues that plague "American comic books" (meaning capeslop) and what alternatives look like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXSBUX6GPsA
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     Wolfgirl in Wheatfield (wgiwf@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 11:03:07 JST Wolfgirl in Wheatfield

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     @Arkana This is why comics in the US have for a long time been relegated to children. This reads like the directives of a propaganda department.
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:44 JST Captain80s

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     by todays standards if you act like Bugs you are adh or autistic. Shits dumb ur just retarded, silly.
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:44 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Some of the people on here are attracted too Bugs Bunny dressed up as a girl bunny.
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:45 JST Captain80s

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     See back then it was innocent humor now it looks dirty.
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:45 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Man, I haven’t watched one of those old 80s Loony Tunes in years.
     They still stand up.
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:46 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     IMG_6854.gif
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:47 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     IMG_6853.gif
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:47 JST Captain80s

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     Yes I love it. With Elmer Fudd as the Fat Lady lol.
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:48 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     80s and 90s kids understood all the Loony Tunes jokes, but now days I think most of those clips would go over a ten year olds vaccine/tap water addled brain.
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:48 JST Captain80s

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     Yep I still say , see ya screwy see ya in St. Louy. Most dont get it.
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:49 JST Captain80s

     in reply to

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     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
     • Jonny
     • adequately imperfect
     • JeffGrimesArt
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     Yep they played them before movies and on movie breaks for adults. That is why a lot of the humor is way above a kids intellect.
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:50 JST Captain80s

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     Do you remember this music?
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:50 JST Jonny

     in reply to

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     • Captain80s
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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Of course.
     Did you know that the original Loony Tunes weren’t even meant for kids?
     They originally played before Hollywood theater movies started in the 50s
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     Captain80s (captain80s@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:51 JST Captain80s

     in reply to

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     • 獣耳会社ｗａｎ
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     • adequately imperfect
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     Remember when you had to wait until Saturday morning to watch cartoons?
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:51 JST Jonny

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     @Captain80s @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @branman65 @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Yes.
     And it was WORTH the wait.
     Cartoons went full gay by the late 80s
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     Jonny (jonny@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Feb-2025 13:59:52 JST Jonny

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     • JeffGrimesArt
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     @branman65 @Pawlicker @JeffGrimesArt @Arkana @adequate @wan @wgiwf @berkberkman
     Jack Hanna made a cartoon for Disney called Lambert the Sheepish Lion. I always loved that story.
     IMG_6851.gif