Evan Prodromou
So, one thing that people are saying about the changes that the DOGE program is making is they seem similar to the changes Musk made when he bought Twitter.
That is: firing lots of people, demanding loyalty, shutting down systems without knowing what they do.
Evan Prodromou
The general consensus at the time was that these changes were going to make the wheels fall off the giant, international computer system called Twitter, then X, and it would have outages and eventually stop working at all.
Evan Prodromou
This hasn't happened. Or, rather, the main endpoint (non-working computer system) hasn't happened. X has continued operating and even has rolled out new features.
I think understanding why could be helpful in dealing with whatever is happening with DOGE.
Evan Prodromou
I have no idea why, btw. I have a few theories:
Evan Prodromou
1) Elon Musk was right and everyone else was wrong. Possible but not likely.
Evan Prodromou
2) the parts that got shut off were really important to having a Twitter like it used to be, but not an X like it has become. So gutting security, trust and safety, and other systems ruined "Twitter" but "X" can live without them.
Evan Prodromou
3) After the really high profile plug-pulling by Musk, employees more quietly re-enabled those systems and ran them under the radar.
Evan Prodromou
4) after the high-profile plug-pulling, employees replaced the previous system with a work-alike, maybe with a new name and different technology so that it was more palatable to the leader. Similar functionality, but different solution and maybe with different inherent values.
Pete Prodoehl 🍕
@evan I think it's fair to say There was Twitter, then Twitter under Musk, then Musk transformed Twitter into X.
At its basic core, functionality is "post stuff, reply to stuff" sure, simple.
But yes, security, trust, safety, etc. were all gutted, lost, or destroyed.
Evan Prodromou
@rasterweb not actually simple! Even at a scale several OOM smaller than X.
Evan Prodromou
@mcc it did have outages but the service still (partially) works and supposedly so does the business.
mcc
@evan It did have outages, though. Repeated ones. It's just that it was on a chat system so there were few or no consequences for the outages, so they weren't talked about once they ended.
Evan Prodromou
@SpaceLifeForm right, but they are still going. It didn't stop entirely.
SpaceLifeForm
And we know how things are going at X-Twitter.
Not well, as was easily predicted.
Evan Prodromou
"This hasn't happened. [...] I think understanding why could be helpful in dealing with whatever is happening with DOGE."
I think the patterns of behaviour are similar, and the ways to remediate might also be similar. Maybe that's cynical; I just am wondering how we get out of the mess, or save some of the lives at risk.
Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:
@evan That’s all just about a commercial entity with a limited reach. What Musk and his teams are doing to, for example USAID, has real world impact on thousands of people and those that depend on these programs. I cannot find another word but cynical for comparing business decisions wrt X/Twitter with health and nourishment programs.
mcc
@evan yes, but for a government, the lasting impact of temporary outages and/or remote compromise may be greater
Evan Prodromou
@mcc Agreed. So, is your point that nothing can be learned from the experience of Musk's management of X? That seems like an extreme position.
mcc
@evan I don't think I'd say that, just that there are some contextual differences that are important. Admittedly maybe I should have waited for the end of your thread to reply.
Evan Prodromou
@mcc yes, but why buck local tradition?
Matt Jordan
It did, however, go from being a flawed pseudo public square to being a straight up Nazi bar. That seems the more alarming parallel to focus on.
Evan Prodromou
@muhkayoh that would be valuable if the question was, how bad can this get? All signals indicate, quite bad indeed.
But I'm asking, how does this get mitigated or even, in parts, repaired? And I think the model of previous chaos monkey runs might be helpful, but not conclusive.
Evan Prodromou
It's not my position that nothing bad has happened at Twitter and thus nothing bad will happen in the US government. Far from it.
I'm asking, if the damage already done to the US government can be mitigated, does the model of the mitigation of, and adaptation to, damage done to Twitter help identify patterns?
Alex Russell
@evan I don't mean to suggest that there aren't ready and available critiques of old-Twitter, or that the wickedly inefficient SV-consensus status-quo-ante of engineering divorced from outcomes and even goals is desirable. But, much as it pains me given my work and priors, we should understand both as superior to net increases in power granted to fascists. They will not be neutral actors.
Evan Prodromou
@slightlyoff agreed.
Alex Russell
@evan Ah yes, "but the fascists promised the trains would run on time" (nevermind that they mostly already did, and now they carry a whole lot more fascists from place to place).
Evan Prodromou
@fifilamoura agreed. The consequences are much higher.
Fifi Lamoura
@evan well what was done to USAID and the CDC has had massive repercussions already. Nobody dies if Twitter goes down.
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