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   Ian Betteridge (ianb@mastodon.well.com)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 06:08:17 JST Ian Betteridge

   A conversation which often comes to mind: when a hard-left friend said, prior to 2016, that they hoped Trump would win because it would “stick it to the elites".

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     Ian Betteridge (ianb@mastodon.well.com)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 06:08:16 JST Ian Betteridge

     in reply to

     I still hear some of the same sentiment today. “Harris lost my vote when X”. She didn't lose your vote: you chose not to do the one thing you could have done to stop the slide into actual, proper fascism.

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     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 07:12:33 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     Never forget, it was the cheap Bernie Sanders Left who handed T the keys to the White House in 2016. As it was Bernie Sanders who stated that there is no difference between T and Hillary Cllinton, both being oligarchs and all. Tell this the women in rural America who lost gynaecological care thereof because Planned Parenthood had to shut down in various counties.
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     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 07:13:16 JST simsa03

     in reply to
     Exactly.
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     tinydoctor (tinydoctor@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 07:28:59 JST tinydoctor

     in reply to

     • simsa03

     @simsa03 @ianb In 2016 I voted for Sanders in the primary (does that make me cheap?), and Clinton in the general. I remember several women, members of Drinking Liberally, not Bernie "Bros" at all (more Center Left than not), who had a vicious animus against Clinton. Just hated her. I never was able to get clear why.

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     simsa03 (simsa03@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 07:40:00 JST simsa03

     in reply to

     • tinydoctor
     No, it doesn't. But I have a specific type of Sanders acolyte in mind:
     https://simsa01.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/why-the-republicans-won-big-in-november-2016-part-1/
     
     With regard to the Clinton hate: She looked smug during the Benghazi hearings. It drove women furious, even here in Europe (a friend of mine hates her till today).
     
     In fact I would even go that far to claim that women hatetd Hillary Clinton primarily because of the tone of her laughter.
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     Ian Betteridge (ianb@mastodon.well.com)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 08:49:07 JST Ian Betteridge

     in reply to

     • AlexTECPlayz

     @alextecplayz I have my limits, too, but generally harm reduction is the way I vote.

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     AlexTECPlayz (alextecplayz@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 08:49:08 JST AlexTECPlayz

     in reply to

     @ianb So, it was either Biden/Harris that would have (supposedly) gradually build up more, gradually improving things, or Trump that just literally waltzed into the office, said "Fuck it, fire'em all", and that's it?

     How many more Dem presidents is now going to take to rebuild back what the US is going to lose in these four years?

     The DEI programs (even if some were just façades) that were closed, the deportations happening RIGHT NOW, JD fucking Vance, Lauren Boebert, the anti-science, anti-research, pro-'freedom' stuff that will gradually accelerate, the economic sanctions, the even more unequivocal support for Israel, and so much more?

     But no, "I'm not voting for Genocide Joe" 🤡

     If the US even gets a chance in four years, considering Agent Orange has spared no time on fast-tracking his position to one of a literal dictator, will people hopefully finally wake up to this reality? Stop voting based on who's pure, start voting the lesser evil.

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     AlexTECPlayz (alextecplayz@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 08:49:09 JST AlexTECPlayz

     in reply to

     @ianb puritan politics suck. That's why I don't follow purists.

     "Oh, but Harris is in favor of genocide" as if she can do anything, considering Israel is THE USA's most significant ally, with almost $200 billion in aid since WW2, its strategic importance in the ME since the Cold War, the nearly $50 billion robust trade agreement, and general pro-Israel lobbying from AIPAC and others. You cannot just fucking drop all of this. You literally cannot.

     No US president, no matter how brazen or left-wing, could do anything better than to remain somewhat neutral with a soft 'I support Israel' in the corner of their mouth. They can only softly endorse Israel's right of self-defense while also acknowledging the humanitarian concerns for Palestinians.

     But I'm sure some Palestinian person that just survived this war is going to be thankful that Joe from Mastodon didn't vote for Biden/Harris. I'm sure that means a lot 🙄

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     AlexTECPlayz (alextecplayz@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 08:49:09 JST AlexTECPlayz

     in reply to

     @ianb I get it, in some sense. "Oh, the Dems don't do anything", "The Dems suck up to the donors and corpos", but at the same time Joe from Mastodon gets up in arms when Proton posts that they're supporting right-wing politicians, and that Dems, for all their faults, are still much better in this regard.

     So why not apply the 'lesser evil' approach to presidents in the US? Why must it always be "if this Dem president doesn't do exactly X, Y and Z, I'm not voting for them".

     Some people would rather have a fascist, or a different Russian plant like Jill Stein, or that "we deserve this fate" because the Dem candidate isn't the fairy godmother, modern-day Jesus Christ, Keanu Reeves, some saint or deity that magically waves their wand around and fixes everything?

     People, breaking shit is easier than to build. It's easier to talk shit and to sit on either side of the fence, but it's much harder to understand every ramification, and to remain somewhere in-between or at least realistic.

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     Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕ (chriswere@toot.wales)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 00:22:02 JST Chris Were ⁂🐧📰🌱☕

     in reply to

     • Grant

     @gsymon @ianb Personally I think she just failed to energise the base. As a politician it's not enough to get people to agree with you, but to energise them enough to turn that agreement into action.

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     Grant (gsymon@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 00:22:04 JST Grant

     in reply to

     @ianb

     Apart from which, she'd have perhaps been an exceptionally good president. I think the first thing is, unlike 99.9% of republicans, she has moral integrity. A mix of her with Warren sorting out the corruption would have been extraordinary. (I say this as a distant Scotsman)

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     Ian Betteridge (ianb@mastodon.well.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 08:54:33 JST Ian Betteridge

     in reply to

     You didn't vote for Clinton, because she wasn't left enough. And so Roe got overturned. You didn't vote for Harris because she wasn't left enough. And so democracy gets overturned.

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     Ian Betteridge (ianb@mastodon.well.com)'s status on Tuesday, 28-Jan-2025 08:56:05 JST Ian Betteridge

     in reply to

     Stop making excuses. You didn't vote for them because ultimately you don't care. You would rather “your body my choice" became the law of the land than you have to hold your nose and vote for someone impure.