Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:05:50 JST fastfinge

   Even completely headless, command line #linux doesn't prioritize #accessibility in any way. Today I had to reinstall an entire #debian system from scratch because a drive listed in my /etc/fstab died. That makes #systemd boot into emergency mode, where you get no SSH, no network, no sound, and no screen reader. There is no quick way to force it to try and boot even though drive 7 of 11 has died, and it could absolutely bring up SSH and the network to let me fix it if it wanted to, just like sysvinit used to do. You can't even force systemd to add SSH and the network to emergency mode because of circular dependencies. nofail will only continue the boot if the drive doesn't exist, but if the filesystem has issues...emergency mode for you. In short: if your drive dies on Linux, fuck you. Be able to see, or reinstall your entire system, because nobody in Linuxland gives a shit about #a11y or your needs.

   • feld repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:07:30 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • dandylover1

     @dandylover1 @fastfinge Accessibility was (kinda) important until the systemd bandwagon became more important.. 🤬

   • Embed this notice
     dandylover1 (dandylover1@friendica.world)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:07:31 JST dandylover1

     in reply to
     @fastfinge I won't boost this, due to the needless vulgarity, but I am quite shocked to hear this. I would think that, since they've been around for decades, Debian, of all distributions, would have such accessibility as a default! I played with it a bit, but I am really a Windows user who is just curious about Linux. And yes, I do need a screen reader as well. Fortunately, mine is within VmWare, so if something goes wrong, it's not serious, just annoying. But if that were my primary machine, that would be horrible!
   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:09 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @fastfinge @freya I haven't seen something that doesn't work with standard HDA sound drivers in... decades? If you're stuck with some hardware that bad, external USB sound device (they're cheap and I've used them for multichannel signal generation stuff separate from system sound) might be a good idea to have on hand. AFAIK they're driverless (standard USB device class driver works for any of them).

   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:12 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @freya I probably need some non free driver.

   • Embed this notice
     Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩 (freya@chaosfem.tw)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:21 JST Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     in reply to

     @fastfinge that's super weird

   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:23 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @freya Bog standard amd64 with onboard sound chipset. The live image didn’t have sound, and my installed system doesn’t either.

   • Embed this notice
     Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩 (freya@chaosfem.tw)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:24 JST Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     in reply to

     @fastfinge we dunno what machine you're running on, but the integrated speech in the installer for Debian and arch works all the time every time. And again, not sure what hardware you're on, but we've got 3 machines right here with serial consoles and, when they were running Linux, they all worked. They're all running Solaris now but still

   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:25 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @freya Only if you have a hardware synthesizer. I’ve never, in 20 years of running Linux machines, had sound work out of the box. Not once. Serial console output used to work, but not so much, these days.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and feld like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩 (freya@chaosfem.tw)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:27 JST Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     in reply to

     @fastfinge incorrect. boot USB, wait 3 seconds, s, then enter, boot with screenreader. In arch images, boot USB, wait 3-5 seconsd, down, then enter. boots with speakup

   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:28 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @freya Nope. USB images don’t support sound or screen readers. So reinstall involves creating a preseed on another machine, making a custom image, and reinstalling. If I can’t have SSH and network, or sound and a screen reader, reinstall is my only option. And the systemd emergency target denies me both of those things, as do live images.

   • Embed this notice
     Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩 (freya@chaosfem.tw)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:11:29 JST Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     in reply to

     @fastfinge wait. WHAT! You had to reinstall? You couldn't boot from USB into archiso and fsck the disk?

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:12:36 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @freya @fastfinge I would expect it to be there on any accessible rescue/install media.

   • Embed this notice
     Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩 (freya@chaosfem.tw)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 15:12:37 JST Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker

     @dalias @fastfinge yepyep, unless usb_audio.ko isn't in your kernel and if it ain't, the fuck you doing?

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 18:27:17 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩
     @dalias @fastfinge @freya Well HDA is also quite non-standard, ended up discovering that with installing longterm kernels on brand new hardware and having to pick out the kernel.org stable kernel instead.
     
     (And wanting to try out OSSv4 some years ago and discovering that none of my hardware is supported…)
   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 22:02:42 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • Freya (it/its)𒀭𒈹𒍠𒊩

     @dalias @freya Heck, the standard Debian bookworm install media doesn’t have onboard sound chipset working on my framework AMD laptop. And framework intentionally supports Debian.

   • Embed this notice
     Howard Chu @ Symas (hyc@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 03:40:18 JST Howard Chu @ Symas

     in reply to

     @fastfinge systemd's design philosophy does not represent all of linuxland. Most seasoned linux devs hate systemd and all it brings with it.

   • Embed this notice
     fastfinge (fastfinge@fed.interfree.ca)'s status on Monday, 27-Jan-2025 04:11:08 JST fastfinge

     in reply to

     • Howard Chu @ Symas

     @hyc Interesting that it continues to exist, and is the default in every major distro, then. Apparently Linux is just as subject to enshittification as everything else.

     feld likes this.