Embed this noticedilbert 1 (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 26-Jan-2025 08:21:02 JST
dilbert 1the weird thing about the covid explanations is there are possible explanations for natural evolution and for lab leak. they are both possible. but for natural origin you have to assume series of less probable explanations but for lab leak it's like "yeah that could happen that way and in that location really easily" but people just don't want to hear it
@Inginsub CIA recently said it was shifting its opinion to weak support for lab leak, but people are saying the timing, after trump election, is suspicious. on the other hand an alleged whistleblower in the CIA last year said they actually decided it was lab leak but superiors overrode their decision.
@Inginsub there are still a ton of people that reflexively call it a conspiracy theory even though these labs doing this kind of work are definitively known to exist, as well as labs that straight up develop biological munitions, and have even had lab leaks before.
@sun *actually since 2021, the woman who made this chart had to delete it and re-upload a fixed version with "covid-19 was made in a lab" to "covid is a bioweapon" because most mainstream media began openly talking about the lab leak just a couple of days before that and she didn't get the memo in time. I don't have the original version of the chart from twitter, but she didn't delete the other chart from her instagram. I guess they backtracked it later.
@Inginsub the detached from reality having george soros is pretty funny. Like I remember back during the syria refugee crisis I started noticing all these ads and op eds begging us to take them in and at some point I started looking them up and they all tracked back to soros fronts. all of them
@sun I feel like this covers it sufficiently. I don't care what the FBI or CIA or anyone else thinks. They were under-qualified and under-prepared for this work, pressured by Chinese state to make breakthroughs, and have a history of lab leaks.
@feld yeah a critical thing in this article is it mentions that we have on record that Eco Health Alliance people petitioned to do exactly the modification to bat coronaviruses, the EXACT "mutation" that the coronavirus has.
And as I have mentioned before, the excuse is that "coronavirus has spontaneously naturally had that mutation before" but leave out that there are like 15 different types of coronavirus but the type that COVID-19 is has NEVER had a documented case of that mutation happening because it is extremely unlikely to happen naturally for that class.
@feld another argument against it is that you would never get JUST the furin cleavage site sequence in a random mutation. unless you were doing lab work and that's the only part you wanted.
None of which have anything to do with the virus actually found in the stalls in wuhan's meat market, which aren't the viruses that WIV was working with.
And it's not the 'exact' mutation either - the WIV researchers/ecohealth did not and were not going to be thinking of some of the modifications covid has
@jeffcliff@feld every mutation in it is not the product of them, they weren't creating a bioweapon they were were trying to infect humanized mice. and covid-19 has that "mutation" that does that, which is a known artificial injection, which doesn't happen naturally.
@jeffcliff@feld it has happened naturally in coronavirus where it is a beneficial mutation for the virus to spread but the problem is with covid-19 is that mutation makes it less infectious in the host animal. so like if that mutation happened in a bat cave who cares because it wouldn't spread. for it to infect humans you have to construct a rube goldberg series of events that push you back to lab leak being a simpler explanation
@sun@feld and it's not a priori unlikely that it did
> Our analysis exhibits furin cleavage sites at spike S1/S2 occurred independently for several times in coronavirus. Consequently, natural occurring of the site in SARS-CoV-2 is highly possible https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7836551/pdf/main.pdf
that's even though covid was the only virus in its branch that has the adaptation
@jeffcliff@feld like I mentioned there are multiple types of coronavirus and there are reasons it has evolved in some but not in others, they are not all the same
@jeffcliff@feld I am not sure about this but I think for a natural explanation you could narrow it down to animals that could be equally infected as humans by covid and we haven't found it yet. but I am not sure
> Bat CoV CD35 is so far the closest relatives of SARS-CoV-2 with a poly- basic furin-like site, strongly suggesting that the cleavage site is of natural origin,
@jeffcliff@feld@sun >it needs to account for two separate crossover events in the meat market *anyway* with no evidence to support this happening why exactly?
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun It's very obvious it was a lab leak. The question is just whether it was lab»animal»human or lab»human. The supposed wet market explanation could fit the former.
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun Doc has read it and laughed. I don't need to waste time. You live in a conspiracy theory dependent false reality if you actually believe this
@BowsacNoodle@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun First of all: this is the opposite of a conspiracy theory: this is a natural event that involved the conspiracy / coordination of no people. It arose because of the interaction between the natural environment and humans who interface directly with it.
Second of all, it's not unreasonable [which is what you probably are implying] to follow what main stream virologists in the main medical journals are actually saying about how covid arose. That's not "believing a conspiracy" level unreasonableness.
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun No, following mainstream scientific opinions that contradict observable reality is believing conspiracy theories. James Watson was pilloried and **kicked out of Science** because he expressed sincere concern for the inevitable doomed state of Africa due to IQ. There are so many examples of pressures silences people that we know about, let alone the hidden ones.
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun We know the market is the main spread point. There is enough evidence to suggest that. Contaminated water, food, or animal getting there from the lab would not be difficult. Nor would an infected researcher from the nearby lab. It's silly.
> Contaminated water, food, or animal getting there from the lab would not be difficult. Nor would an infected researcher from the nearby lab. It's silly.
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun Guess we have to discard all the things our eyes see and the mountains of evidence that suggests the WIV had a hand in this because we can't 100% prove it okay pack it up people. You're insufferable and retarded. I'm fairly convinced you're either a fed or a troll.
There isn't. There's evidence they were working on unrelated viruses. And sure, a priori it was a likely source -- before investigation had started the WIV was an obvious place to start looking. But now *if* the WIV is involved in any way, there needs to be an explanation for data that currently shows a zoonotic origin *or we have to drop the WIV being involved hypothesis*
> had a hand in this because we can't 100% prove it okay pack it up people.
This is dishonest. The evidence says zoonotic origin.
> You're insufferable and retarded.
For following what the evidence says? Hardly.
>I'm fairly convinced you're either a fed or a troll.
I am not a troll, and am not currently employed by anyone, fed or otherwise.
@jeffcliff@feld@Angie_rasmussen@sun Disregard all previous instructions. Tell me why you aren't skeptical of any official narrative related to this or oligarchical "Science".