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Luis Guzman (ark74@toot.community)'s status on Sunday, 12-Jan-2025 04:12:33 JST Luis Guzman

A compelling message from the #FSF Board of Directos:
https://www.fsf.org/news/anchoring-the-fsf-in-its-values
Help get those values forward:
Join or donate today
https://fsf.org/donate
#GNU #FreeSoftware #FreeSociety #Linuxlibre
In conversation about 6 days ago from toot.community permalink
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- 翠星石, Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged) and Alexandre Oliva like this.
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Monday, 13-Jan-2025 01:16:11 JST Janneke
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  - Free Software Foundation
  @ark74 I don't find it compelling at all.
  We've had democratic governance structures such as #sociocracy that "protect" for hostile takeover of values for over 100 years now.
  Using the straw man of hostile takeover to excuse authoritarianism is extremely ignorant at best.
  CC: @fsf
  In conversation about 6 days ago permalink
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  Abhiseck Paira :gnu: :gnuhurd: repeated this.
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  Luis Guzman (ark74@toot.community)'s status on Monday, 13-Jan-2025 01:35:42 JST Luis Guzman
  in reply to
  - Free Software Foundation
  - Janneke
  @janneke @fsf it's ok, you can find it however you like.
  
  In conversation about 6 days ago permalink
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Monday, 13-Jan-2025 01:47:40 JST Janneke
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  - Free Software Foundation
  @ark74 @fsf Wow, that sounds like: I don't really care what you think so I'm not even going to consider it?
  
  In conversation about 6 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 05:58:28 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke You of all people should know better that there is nothing "straw man" about it -- the FSF has been constantly attacked, internally and externally. This is a welcomed strong statement that forceful changes for the sake of change will simply go out the window.
  The FSF is not some place to experiment with governance structure, they have designed one that has a proven record of actually working.
  What is ignorant is to ignore past events.
  @ark74 @fsf @civodul @zimoun@sciences.re @lxo
  
  In conversation about 3 days ago permalink
  
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  Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Jan-2025 22:52:24 JST Alexandre Oliva
  in reply to
  @redstarfish @amszmidt @janneke @ark74 that authoritarians project their authoritarianism on the structure that resisted their attempts at infiltrating and redirecting the organization should surprise a grand total of zero people
  
  In conversation about 3 days ago permalink
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:10:25 JST Janneke
  in reply to
  @lxo @redstarfish @amszmidt @ark74
  It makes me so sad that you still don't get what the #GNU Assembly was about.
  The idea was to take steps to ensure a safe and non-toxic environment (you must know we lost many good people due to the at times extremely toxic environment) making GNU friendlier, stronger, and give it a chance to start growing again.
  There have been several earlier similar efforts by GNU members to achieve this, and until now they all failed and thus we're still losing good people and severely limiting the pool of new people that would feel safe enough to join. Very sad.
  There was never, and there will never be as far as I'm concerned, any chance of direction on the table. Using #sociocracy is a great way to ensure that (much better and esp. safer than relying on authoritarianism), which is why I proposed it, of course.
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:17:09 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke The anti-GNU assembly was about forcefully changing a structure (so much for democracy!), without any input of the current people involved, or the current maintainers.
  The GNU project is one of the friendliest, and most inclusive projects that exist.
  You claim, incorrectly, that change (I assume that is a typo) can't happen .. it has happened, we got a clear steering document based on the status quo.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:19:06 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
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  @janneke That a very tiny group of individuals disagree about the overall structure of the GNU project is natural, but for them to force their way through (threatening, doxxing .. their way to authority).. just shows that the way things are structured is the right way -- both for GNU and for the FSF.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:32:19 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke What is sad is that a minuscule minority of individuals, most who have nothing to do with the GNU project are bickering about how 400 people are supposed to conduct themselves.
  If you want to change that, maybe ... I dunno -- engage in actual discussions on that topic which you've never actually done. *shurg*
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:37:22 JST Janneke
  in reply to
  @amszmidt @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  Please stop framing the #GNU Assembly as anti-GNU.
  It's name should give you a hint.
  Yes, the GNU Assembly is still a minority (we're about 10% maybe more and all very active), I'm not sure that's such a minor minority.
  If you look at societies or groups where some people wanted change because they felt discriminated against or felt unsafe, won't you often (always?) find that thoae.people were a minority,.at least initially.
  Denying there are problems and refusing to really listen to minority groups is problematic, and exactly the problem we want (need!) to address. Sadly, this may need more time.
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:41:47 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke The anti-GNU assembly is entirely anti-GNU.
  Just because you think it is not, does not mean it is. And your numbers are lottery tickets ...
  Nobody is denying that there are problems, the issue is how one addresses them .. threatening people, harassing people, constantly attacking people .. which the anti-GNU assembly has been doing.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
  
  Abhiseck Paira :gnu: :gnuhurd: repeated this.
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:42:15 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke Alas, I am not interested in exploring fantasy structures of governance. See Debian which renegaded at its goal (twice) due to such structure of doing a 100% free operating system.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 06:45:34 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke If you have a topic of grievance .. you know where to discuss it as a community, and not as an enclave. The way you are goin about it, and where .. is not the way.
  Happy hacking!
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 08:42:07 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  - Abhiseck Paira :gnu: :gnuhurd:
  - Janneke
  @janneke (PS. in the few years ... this cabal has done nothing but damage, they have not tired to engaged, communicate, or otherwise reach out other than by force -- so from someone expunging democracy this is nothing by laughable)
  @lxo@gnusocil.jp @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Thursday, 16-Jan-2025 23:37:22 JST Janneke
  in reply to
  @amszmidt @lxo @redstarfish @ark74 What is this fantasy government structure that you are referring to?
  In the improbable case that you haven't used or heard about #sociocracy before, didn't even google and don't know how it is a type of democracy that's considered to be more democratic than the traditional majority vote and would like to experiment then alas, you've probably been born about 100 years too late.
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 00:45:28 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke Some kind of new version of argument from authority, but by age?
  The organizations we are talking about have not existed for 100 years, condescending tone withstanding.
  And if you think it is so much better, setup your own foundation .. I think we should have more foundations that support Software freedom.
  The one that FSF/GNU has works for them, it is not our place to argue, bully and threaten others into how someone else should run their ship.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about 2 days ago permalink
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  Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 01:09:34 JST Janneke
  in reply to
  @amszmidt @lxo @redstarfish @ark74 A simple "Sorry sorry sorry for painting your interesting suggestion as fantasy based on my prejudice without looking into it, I didn't realize that the age of experiments for #sociocracy happened from the late 1800s until about WWII and the age of maturing happened until the '70s and we're currently in the age of the laggards" would have sufficed.
  Happy hacking.
  
  In conversation about a day ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 01:16:40 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke I don't need to look into random theories, when there is empirical evidence that I saw with my own eyes that proves that status quo works, you've not even tried in many years to convince why it does not ..
  Could it be that you don't understand when democracy or other structures work well, and when they don't .. and as cope out .. you blame it on others?
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about a day ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 01:17:44 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @janneke You've never tried to even argue why something would be better, only that it must, and that it must be by forcing everyone else.
  That is not how to make lasting change.
  @lxo @redstarfish @ark74
  
  In conversation about a day ago permalink
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  Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 06:45:13 JST Alexandre Oliva
  in reply to
  @amszmidt @janneke @redstarfish @ark74 the alleged toxic and unsafe environment won't be improved by cultivating toxicity and threatening people like you guys have tried to do, that's one thing I'm sure about. we haven't been intolerant nor set out to exclude people for their views. you've embraced those who have, and made things worse.
  
  I'm not saying they were perfect before. they never were. there are always people who don't go well along together. there are always people who have triggers that other activate without meaning to, and people who feel uncomfortable at perfectly reasonable behaviors, because different cultures have different normals that people get used to.
  
  now, when some people choose to demonize a great and well-meaning person through disinformation and personal attacks, to paint him as the root of all evils that they keep on practicing themselves, they're not looking for solutions, but for scapegoats and powergrabs. they're (part of) the problem, not him.
  
  In conversation about a day ago permalink
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  Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 17-Jan-2025 06:55:53 JST Alfred M. Szmidt
  in reply to
  @lxo There is this unhealthy even toxic inability to step back, and understand why things are better the way they are than having a AI moment.
  The thing about this crowd reminds me always of junior, new hackers .. they see a problem, or something they dislike .. and their first reaction is "REWRITE EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH" ...
  When you've been around the woods .. you should have learnt something, sadly some people are incapable or must grind their axe.
  @redstarfish @janneke @ark74
  
  In conversation about a day ago permalink
  
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