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   alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 03:59:09 JST alcinnz

   If you're going to define a "programming language" by its Turing Completeness...

   Please do so in order to expand what a programming language can be, not to constrain it! And please don't attach prestige/gatekeeping to the term!

   We seems to have fixated onto textual procedural languages for the past... Is it half-a-century now?

   • Embed this notice
     Garrett (garrett@masto.garrett.life)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 04:03:19 JST Garrett

     in reply to

     @alcinnz I don’t think it really matters, in the end, what is or isn’t. And so anyone who says something *isn’t* are being gatekeepers. Like who fucking cares. If people want to say my homemade baked potato soup is a programming language — let them believe that!

     alcinnz repeated this.
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     Garrett (garrett@masto.garrett.life)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 04:09:52 JST Garrett

     in reply to

     @alcinnz if we want to err on the side of inclusivity it’s better to assume my award winning home made baked potato soup is in fact a programming language. If we say it’s not, we’re immediately disallowing everyone who creates using my FDA approved award winning home made baked potato soup from calling themselves a “programmer”. And what does that even matter anyway? Are programmers so worried about the title that they have to draw lines in the sand? Big “you’re not a gamer” vibes.

   • Embed this notice
     alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 04:12:57 JST alcinnz

     in reply to

     • Garrett

     @garrett "Programming" is such a vague term (covering a wide breadth of skills) that its not that useful of a title without attaching some additional specialty onto it.

     But there's a lot of ego attached to it, so many don't want to admit this.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Garrett (garrett@masto.garrett.life)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 04:15:11 JST Garrett

     in reply to

     @alcinnz that’s basically the conclusion I’ve come to. Like who fucking cares? It hurts literally no one for me to say I’m a programmer because I poured this glass of water. Singing karaoke is a programming language and I’m gonna make some sweet software tonight.

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 04:52:52 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @alcinnz Heh, for me a programming language is to write programs, and turing completeness more relevant to the machine or to quality as a general purpose programming language.
     
     Of course then there's the question is what exactly is a program, but pretty sure finite automata can fit.
     
     And personally I'd exclude static languages like html/xml/json/… that don't really do any actions/processing, or at least aren't supposed to unless your parser is designed broken (cf. billion laughs).
     alcinnz repeated this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 05:11:27 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @alcinnz As a slight tangent, I often wish there would be less turing-completeness, at least by design.
     Because turing completeness means halting problem.
   • Embed this notice
     alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 05:15:03 JST alcinnz

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan You know...

     It complicates standardization at times, but CSS specifically avoids introducing any loop constructs! Because browsers need to ensure relayout is fast!

     On the otherhand you may have heard that HTML/CSS is Turing Complete. I quibble a bit on those proofs.

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 05:20:35 JST alcinnz

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan Or another example I like: There's a concept for Functional Programming languages which caps algorithmic complexity to O(n*log n).

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 05:31:52 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @alcinnz I heard about that few times but the only examples I found is HTML+CSS+user-input because well CSS doesn't seems to be able to store state or trigger events even with the help of HTML, so not turing complete.
   • Embed this notice
     alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Thursday, 19-Dec-2024 05:33:51 JST alcinnz

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     @lanodan Yeah that's Quibble. These proofs rely on you acting like Stanley from that videogame.

     Interesting program, but inferior to pen & paper with printed instructions.