Laffy
Murder is wrong, no matter how much you hate the victim. FFS.
If Trump celebrated the murder of someone he hated (& he does), you're good with that, too?
Seeing so many good people being okay with someone killing someone in cold blood is beyond alarming.
"He deserved it?" No, even if he was a prick
Robert Link
@Atticus1956 @GottaLaff Put a foot in a bucket of hot sand, the other in a bucket of ice water. Are you hot, or cold? I in fact can celebrate action taken against the injustice of "healthcare" even while lamenting the human loss. Thompson may have been a nice guy, in context, and he's still the "buck stops here" person in context of rolling out an AI with a 90% inaccuracy rate which in turned caused uncountable misery and even death.
Oh, and #EatTheRich .
atticus1956
Agree 💯%. The vigilantism supported by the current political environment is totally unacceptable. The lack of empathy and compassion is 180° out from the values instilled by families, educational institutions, and voiced in our Constitution. Celebrating the murder of any individual confirms we have lost our moral direction.
Laffy
@phaedral One can be glad he’s gone, but to “celebrate the action”?? Murder’s okay now? Rule of law is out the window? Okay then. @Atticus1956
Robert Link
@GottaLaff @Atticus1956 I'm an activist, or at least I once was. I do not foment revolution, because I think the legacy of Mao and Stalin prove that's no better answer than slow change from within. So, containing multitudes as I do, part of me indeed delights to see what might be the beginnings of change wrought by this act of violence which was not senseless. I prefer the rule of law, but the rule of law is always a sublimation for more desperate measures. "Blood of patriots and tyrants..."
NiciHW🦋
@phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff
Killing the CEO is unlikely to change the policies enacted by United healthcare
Not sure how we reign these lunatic could-care-less companies in, however laws should be passed? And then enforced?
😣😩🤬
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺
@battusphilenor
Should be, but they won't. Not now. We all know that. So, what now?
@phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff
RogueDharmaBum
@battusphilenor @phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff
"Not sure how we reign these lunatic could-care-less companies in, however laws should be passed? And then enforced?"
And that is your answer. That's why this happened and why people are celebrating.
There is no realistic route to peaceful change so we have this. We will continue to have this until realistic routes to peaceful change manifest.
Not saying it's good, just that it is what it is.
Robert Link
@GottaLaff @Atticus1956 I think lots of us are struggling to articulate a sentiment here. I think one way to say it is, "Sure, the rule of law is great, when it works. But there are monied forces which use that law to murder without accountability. This itself is the cause of the breakdown of respect for the rule of law."
SlatsGrobnik
@battusphilenor @phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff I think the expression you're looking for is single-payer universal healthcare. Eliminate profit motive from a basic human right. Bernie Sanders has a few insightful things to say about this.
Laffy
@phaedral @Atticus1956 Yes, agree. My one point, my singular point, that people keep bypassing with the wise words you just wrote, is that murder is not the answer.
Robert Link
@GottaLaff @Atticus1956 A little meta: Never been on any service where the conversation could go forward with such restraint and mutual respect. That in itself is a ray of hope.
GFJacobs Is Still Masking
@battusphilenor @phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff
Regulatory legislation by congress to address this is just as likely as laws to control climate change.
The ReTHUG trifecta will move to anything BUT
John A. Wojtowicz
@phaedral @GottaLaff @Atticus1956
Thank you for your post.
The rule of law is only of value if there is a consensus of how the rule of law is defined.
Republicans appear to edit the rule of law to align with what they believe it should be.
Peace
Robert Link
@faraiwe @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff Trump shouldn't be going to jail. His head should be on a pike out front of 1600 Pennsylvania as a warning to other traitors.
faraiwe
@phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff perspective
Brian Thompson killed more Americans by denying them critical healthcare, AFTER THEY PAID HIM FOR IT, than any terrorist with an WMD ever did.
People clutching pearls at the manner of his death did not raise any of that stink when he used AI to essentially kill (or cut length or quality of life from) hundreds of thousands, for profit.
Thompson was a smiling monster. protecting monsters is an obscenity unto itself.
Maybe "murder is not the answer" but when EVERY AND ANY OTHER ANSWER is denied to people, the Rule of Law has failed, factually.
For fuck's sake a convicted felon ON BAIL is being allowed to enter the White House, when he should be going to the Big House.
Law reflects (or should) the overall Will of People. Law is only as good as People are. Law is just ink on paper, if people are not willing to enforce it. Legal fetishes are not gonna save us, guys.
be 117% sure of one thing: clutching pearls and bothsidism ARE killing democracy, because allowing the other side to use a missile launcher when the spineless dems bring niceties to the fight.
Laffy
Robert Taylor
@GottaLaff @phaedral @Atticus1956 Rule of Law is only for good guys, and Daniel Penny & Kyle Rittenhouse are no fucking heroes either!
Nicole Parsons
@GottaLaff @bynkii @gfjacobs @tylervu
Murdering CEO'S isn't necessary when lawsuits work better.
Mass murdering corporations have faced consequences:
1. Tobacco
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Philip_Morris
2. Chemical
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Chemical_Company
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Carbide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Corning
3. Tech
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalez_v._Google_LLC
4. Fossil fuel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley
https://www.propublica.org/article/welcome-to-cancer-alley-where-toxic-air-is-about-to-get-worse
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch,_Inc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Exxon_Mobil
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_v._ExxonMobil_Corp.
1/2
Bynkii
@GottaLaff @gfjacobs @tylervu we already know the answer: never.
Those who are protected by the law are not bound by it, those who are bound by the law are not protected by it.
Whether or not you approve of a CEO being treated like someone who died because their medical needs were deemed unnecessary by said CEO, the fact you seem to have no understanding of what men like him have done and how it could push someone to take that action is really disappointing.
Laffy
@bynkii @gfjacobs @tylervu “ the fact you seem to have no understanding of what men like him have done and how it could push someone to take that action is really disappointing.”
I have never suggested I had no understanding of any of that. I never mentioned it ever.
It’s “really disappointing” that you’d put words in my mouth.
My ONLY point is that murder is wrong.
Bynkii
@GottaLaff @gfjacobs @tylervu whether or not I approve is immaterial.
If the shooter was someone who’d lost a family memeber due to UHC denying a procedure or medication, (these are not imaginary hypotheticals, people actually die because of this), someone with a family member who’d been effectively murdered by that man’s company, this would be a very different discussion.
Bynkii
Every year, large numbers of people die, are bankrupted, are disabled, are slammed into generational poverty because of UHC et al.
These companies, by their pursuit of profit have actually caused death and destruction and the worst, the absolute worst they will ever face is: a civil penalty. A fine that will amount to couch change.
Bynkii
Before you start with “WeLL cHaNgE tHe LaW”, we both know there’s no civil law that will stop this. You know better than most that even if a unicorn jury levied the amount of fine that would actually hurt, if it made it out of the courtroom, it would be reduced to a pittance and MAYBE an apology on appeal.
This is unarguable. We’ve seen it happen.
So when, exactly, do CEO’s of companies who make decisions that provably kill people face any form of legal penalty?
Laffy
@gfjacobs However…
Whether or not it LEADS to vigilantism, it doesn’t make vigilantism right. Or legal. Or justified.
FFS, we’re talking about shooting someone in the back!
Laffy
@tylervu I disagree. And your “for you… just animus” label is a pretty big assumption based on 1 post. You know nothing about me in this context. I’m not referring to his vile acts, I’m saying cold blooded murder is wrong, period.
I find your analogy faulty, btw. But back to…
Whether or not he “deserves” to die is one thing.
Vigilanteism is quite another.
Rule of law should matter.
GFJacobs Is Still Masking
Rule of law SHOULD matter.
However, when corporations and oligarchs rule, justice is for them ONLY.
Ignoring this leads to #vigilanteJustice
Tyler Vu
If a terrorist takes hostages and starts shooting them one by one, surely a sniper bullet would be justified to save the lives of those hostages.
For you, it’s just animus towards the victim who is “a prick.” For the rest of us, he’s a for-profit murderer for whom our stock market rewards and celebrates. There will never be a court of law that brings people like him to justice let alone to stop him from committing more murders. I’ll never pull the trigger myself but until there is a such court of law, I’ll take the court of public opinion when someone is brave enough to rescue us hostages.
Nicole Parsons
2/2
5. Pharmaceutical & medical
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_opioid_epidemic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements
6. Auto makers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi
https://www.mlive.com/auto/2016/07/ralph_nader_still_taking_swing.html
Eventually there will be lawsuits against corporations who expose their employees to contagious diseases like covid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate
Nicole Parsons
@battusphilenor @phaedral @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff
Class action lawsuits have worked before. So has changing the law & passive resistance.
Robert Link
@Npars01 @battusphilenor @Atticus1956 @GottaLaff Saul Alinski quotes Gandhi as saying, essentially, if the Indian people had been a little more tractable he would not have been forced into passive resistance. ymmv
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