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1. Embed this notice
   Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 18:26:05 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

   It isn't that far-right has suddenly become a big movement in Europe. The far-right support has always been and will always be around 20%. The task of society is to keep that support in the "morally unacceptable" box that is buried deep in the ground. Clickbait, polarisation supported by technofascism and Putins money and methods for destabilisation in democracies however are the most powerful attack against that equilibrium I have ever experienced. And we are losing.

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 18:31:43 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     I don't trust the fractioned and scattered left to come up with a solid approach. That's also a classical thing. They will never unite but always lose themselves in infighting. And the far right will take advantage of that again, just like it happened in the 1920/30s. So. First task, IMHO: Shout out to loud and clear that you are antifascist and will put them back in that moral box that needs to stay buried deep underground. That is an axiom, not a position that should be discussed.

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     Tree Hugger 🌳 🌍 💙 🇬🇧 (lemonsqueezy@ohai.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 18:50:52 JST Tree Hugger 🌳 🌍 💙 🇬🇧

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer not only that, smaller parties won more seats for the same reason. Right leaning voters weren't quite so organised.

   • Embed this notice
     Tree Hugger 🌳 🌍 💙 🇬🇧 (lemonsqueezy@ohai.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 18:50:53 JST Tree Hugger 🌳 🌍 💙 🇬🇧

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer

     It's what happened in the UK until enough people voted tactically in our last election. Now we have a Labour government with an enormous majority of seats won on a 3rd of the votes.

     #peoplepower #tacticalvoting

   • Embed this notice
     nachtet (nachtet@norden.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:38:58 JST nachtet

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann

     @taschenorakel @jwildeboer

     We need to be back in the streets, not saying "oh, fascism wasn't impressed by us, oh well, we give up".

   • Embed this notice
     Mathias Hasselmann (taschenorakel@mastodon.green)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:38:59 JST Mathias Hasselmann

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer While I totally sympathize with your axiom and wish it would be true: It doesn't work. In Germany had millions out on the streets trying exactly that this year. The reaction of the evil cabal you described: Even more money in right extremist propaganda. The result: Even more won elections by the right and yet another right shift by the government.

     We really have to kill the hydra.

   • Embed this notice
     Martin Thornton (_mosso@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:46:07 JST Martin Thornton

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer Meanwhile, the left in France united to defeat the far right, came first in the election and then Macron shut them out and formed a government with the far right, validating the far right in the process, just like every other western centrist politician, positively eager to "pragmatically" creep rightwards.

   • Embed this notice
     Mathias Hasselmann (taschenorakel@mastodon.green)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:49:21 JST Mathias Hasselmann

     • nachtet

     @jwildeboer @nachtet To achieve what? To lose fait?

     Public manifestations are a useful tool for the people in power if the manifestations support their stake. Otherwise they just laugh of us: "Look these clowns!"

     If you really want to change something you have to go where the power is.

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:55:01 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann
     • Sören

     @chucker My approach is to focus on decentralisation. "Too big to fail" can be beaten by simple ignorance. To be able to ignore the Big Few, you need to offer (a lot of) (hyper-)local alternatives that people trust through personal relationships, AKA "I know those people and I trust them". ActivityPub/Mastodon has that potential. To create and foster communities of practice that can break the power of the Big Few. On many levels. It'll take time. It won't happen overnight. @taschenorakel

   • Embed this notice
     Sören (chucker@norden.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:55:03 JST Sören

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann

     @taschenorakel @jwildeboer but while changing tax policy is relatively easy, putting the media genie back in its bottle is hard. How do you make people trust journalists again? How do you explain that “social media” has its virtues, but often amplifies lies and sometimes even propaganda?

     alcinnz repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Mathias Hasselmann (taschenorakel@mastodon.green)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:55:05 JST Mathias Hasselmann

     in reply to

     • Sören

     @chucker @jwildeboer It comes together: Media is what it is because untaxed super rich had too much money available to play with.

   • Embed this notice
     Sören (chucker@norden.social)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:55:06 JST Sören

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann

     @taschenorakel @jwildeboer agreed. Thatcherism et al were the seeds towards a rise of cynicism, belief that the state can do no good, that things are getting worse, that what we used to have is going away.

     But tax policy isn’t enough; the changed media landscape is also a huge problem.

   • Embed this notice
     Mathias Hasselmann (taschenorakel@mastodon.green)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 19:55:07 JST Mathias Hasselmann

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer Tax the rich... Just saying.

     What we are experiencing today has its roots in the era of Thatcher, Reagan and the like. With their exceptional love for the super rich they laid the ground for today's disaster.

     It sounds like populism, maybe it is populism, but my strong opinion is: Revert any tax policy of this era, and maybe we'll be safe. Otherwise: Goodbye democracy.

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 20:17:55 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     So my hope is that I can inspire you to be assured that your position of pro-democracy (with all its problems) is the position of the big majority out there and that it is worth to shout it out loud and thus show the 20% that they should return to a place where the sun doesn't shine. How you do that is up to you. I will not force you into any way of doing that. I am actually looking forward to your creativity and power to unite in the most decentralised way :)

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 20:29:08 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     My advice, if you want to hear it, is simple. Focus on the positivity of being the majority that wants a fair and just society, based on the fundamental human rights and democracy. Don't fall into the trap of getting lost and demotivated by discussions on details, that are simply irrelevant in the bigger picture. Feel free to simply leave those pigeon chess [1] championships that exist around you. And don't get lost in bike shedding [2].

     [1] https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess
     [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 20:37:51 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     Do what you can and want. Be creative. Try, fail, learn, try again. But don't burn yourself out. Your personal happiness and mental stability is always top priority. Be prepared to deal with others exhausting themselves and be there to support them when needed. We want to be and do good and that starts with being good to ourselves and those we care about. The rest follows.

   • Embed this notice
     Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange: (jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 20:51:13 JST Jan Wildeboer 😷:krulorange:

     in reply to

     So talk frequently to your local politicians. In your community. Where a little change can mean a lot. Ignore the national and transnational politics that you can't influence anyway. Know that change on that level will come from down below. Know also that local politicians and authorities really welcome local initiatives. And trust me, those little changes that you become part of will make your life better, will give you energy to cause more change. OK. I'll stop my Sunday sermon right here :)

   • Embed this notice
     Simon Johnson (simon318ppm@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 21:42:52 JST Simon Johnson

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann

     @taschenorakel @jwildeboer I think it’s much more than being on the streets expressing our outrage though. We need to be in our neighbourhoods when we can, doing whatever might help build community solidarity and human relationships

     God knows it’s hard but even insisting on saying good morning to everyone we bump into is a start

     And our fury should not just be directed at the far right but at the so-called mainstream parties who legitimise their policies

   • Embed this notice
     Martin Thornton (_mosso@fosstodon.org)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 23:10:40 JST Martin Thornton

     in reply to

     @jwildeboer Fascism is winning because moronic neoliberals have been transferring wealth from ordinary people to the rich for 4 straight decades and this is the chickens coming home to roost.

   • Embed this notice
     Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱 (chaosmonkey@masto.ai)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 23:10:40 JST Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Martin Thornton

     @_mosso @jwildeboer I rather see it as there was a brief period during the interbellum and 20-30 years post WW2 where people collectively thought wealth transfer was unacceptable... and were vocal enough about.

     We lost that.

   • Embed this notice
     Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱 (chaosmonkey@masto.ai)'s status on Sunday, 08-Dec-2024 23:23:14 JST Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     • Martin Thornton

     @jwildeboer @_mosso That's one way to look at it. That period was way before my time, so I have to judge it through the coloured lenses of history.

     In any case: people nowadays should be focussing on standing & working together to promote & defend "common" decency, respect and rights.

     The oligarchs will not do it for us.

     Personally I don't care if someone is "left", "right", black, purple, gay, trans whatever.. if we can have a respectful chat & work together, that's enough for me.

     #respect

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     Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱 (chaosmonkey@masto.ai)'s status on Monday, 09-Dec-2024 03:47:26 JST Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     in reply to

     @chucker @jwildeboer @taschenorakel I'm not sure how that was decentralization to be honest.

     People that were denying COVID and antivaxxers seemed to have been primarily relying on F***book and Twatter from what I remember. Not exactly decentralized.

     The true root cause of the problem was/is IMHO: lack of education & lack of critical thinking skills.

     Divide and Conquer my friend.

     Give the populace bread & games and we will stay in power.

     I.e. modern media, including "social", are the games.

   • Embed this notice
     Sören (chucker@norden.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Dec-2024 03:47:28 JST Sören

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann

     @jwildeboer @taschenorakel optimistically, yes. Cynically, well, look at COVID. Decentralization has made people trust the local town crier over medical professionals.

     That phenomenon has always existed to some extent, but its influence has grown in recent decades.

   • Embed this notice
     Sören (chucker@norden.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Dec-2024 03:49:11 JST Sören

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann
     • maybenot
     • Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     @maybenot @chaosmonkey @jwildeboer @taschenorakel I’m not sure that’s true. If Facebook, Twitter, TikTok et al didn’t exist, and the Fediverse were massive, I see no reason to believe a state- or oligarch-funded disinfo op wouldn’t be hugely popular right here.

     Would some instances block it? Sure. But would a lot of people actively seek it? Yes.

   • Embed this notice
     maybenot (maybenot@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Dec-2024 03:49:12 JST maybenot

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann
     • Sören
     • Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     @chucker @chaosmonkey @jwildeboer @taschenorakel

     the issue here is that, while different from legacy media, twitter/facebook have this overwhelming misinfo and propaganda barrage delivery ability precisely /because/ the are centralized.

     to say nothing of the size and funding of the "smaller information sources", a state- (or oligarch-) funded disinfo op (which is then amplified and repeated by the idiots and grifters) is hardly at a resource/financial disadvantage against a tv press room

   • Embed this notice
     Sören (chucker@norden.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Dec-2024 03:49:13 JST Sören

     in reply to

     • Mathias Hasselmann
     • Martijn 🇪🇺🇳🇱

     @chaosmonkey @jwildeboer @taschenorakel it’s decentralization in the sense that Facebook and Twitter aren’t the classic mass media, which they’ve lost trust in.

     We’ve moved from people mostly getting their information from the newspaper or the evening TV news, then discussing them at the pub to them increasingly using smaller information sources (some random with a blog, or on Facebook, or elsewhere) that blur the line of information and opinion.