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   meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:16:37 JST meeper

   Flatpak is actually kinda okay for big ass /opt/ worthy gui apps as it contains it and all their dependencies in a stable environment and everything will not break and you will not waste your brandwidth with an arch linux update for example

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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:16:35 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper i think its ok. the sandbox parts get a little hmm sometimes.
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:16:36 JST Maija

     in reply to
     @meeper flatpak is nice i hope all snap shills shrivel and die
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:22:53 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper yeah flatpak just puts everything in .var
     
     i use a couple of flatpaks and need to learn how to ship them. the tech itself is tolerable. just not a fan of how management is gnome'd
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:22:55 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @meeper unless you mean flatpak is okay which yeah
   • Embed this notice
     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:22:56 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @meeper bloated slow centralized rapes my home directory with its horrible layout, always mounted in the background, cripples my boot and shutdown times, wastes my ram when not in use, its ass its ass its ass
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:26:14 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @meeper yeah same
     appimage will always be nr one in my heart
     but flatpak is fairly convenient
     snacks likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:42:16 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper flatpak has wayland issues. i could shrug but it also has gstreamer issues (mudlet is given as appimage and has no sound because of this)
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     snacks (snacks@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:44:49 JST snacks

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @maija @icedquinn @meeper works prefectly well on my machine for idk how many years by now
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:44:50 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @meeper good thing wayland is irrelevant poettering tier trash that only nerds obsessed with patching their broken system use
   • Embed this notice
     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:44:59 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @maija@netzsphaere.xyz @icedquinn@blob.cat idk why but I've a lot of tearing and lag on xorg when on wayland it's smooth

     snacks likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:45:24 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @meeper @maija wayland seems like a neat idea but a bit scuffed.
     
     at this point i'd probably say we should just make an ember profile for varlink and then use that to do some basic window management & negociating vulkan surfaces to draw to
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:47:40 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @meeper @maija its a subset of ASN.1 BER for media control https://github.com/Lawo/ember-plus
     
     there is also 'glow' which is a tree sync protocol on top of ember. idk if i'd want to use that part though, i haven't experimented with it enough to know if it would be good. though a desktop can be modeled as a tree so maybe?
     
     there's also cbor but there's a few weird bits of that everyone seems to hate
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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:47:41 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @icedquinn@blob.cat @maija@netzsphaere.xyz ember profile for varlinkwhat's that

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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:48:17 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @maija@netzsphaere.xyz @icedquinn@blob.cat I mean it lags like shit compared to wayland even with a compositor, and I've used proper DE compositors.

     snacks likes this.
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:48:18 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @meeper @icedquinn thats just because wayland has compositing built in while on xorg its either a driver option or you need a compositor a top of it.
     but tearing is good sometimes, reminder that wayland only recently ever implemented it despite being unconditionally opposed to it for the longest time because games were unplayable
     the shitty thing about linux is that everytime it gets usable and decent and people start to switch over, shitheads like lennart poettering decide to start major components of the conventional desktop from scratch and do it even worse when they worked just fine and were never an issue
     the only part of this that ever was a good idea imho was pulseaudio and thats only because of the absolutely hell linux's audio shit was at the time with like a dozen competiting and conflicting standards all atop alsa
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: repeated this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:49:06 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper usually there's a need for poetterware its just that it tends to get forced by red hat instead of winning in the marketplace of ideas
     
     like most of X doesn't need to exist and isn't used these days. but wayland doesn't answer other important problems like event propagation
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:49:30 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @meeper @maija pipewire is great
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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:49:31 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @maija@netzsphaere.xyz @icedquinn@blob.cat we should have never moved pass OSS

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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:49:58 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @icedquinn@blob.cat @maija@netzsphaere.xyz only good hatware

     snacks likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:51:22 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper you still need a protocol for sockets and shm.
     
     XDR is basically just C structs with a well specified memory layout.
     
     BER would be ok but it has some recursive bullshit which cbor inherited a smaller amount of. DER and Ember subset away the foot guns and isn't actually that hard to deal with.
     
     Protobuf is kind of ok, though i prefer the way ber and cbor handle unsigned numbers
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:51:24 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @meeper man what happened to just using sockets fifo and shared memory
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:52:19 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Maija
     @maija @meeper pipewire is like jack without the single interface limitation, and does a good enough job of wearing a pulseaudio trenchcoat
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:52:20 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @meeper it seems to work, my shitty ubuntu install is stable enough using it but i still dont see why it was at all needed instead of pulseaudio which already existed
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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 19:53:08 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija

     @maija@netzsphaere.xyz @icedquinn@blob.cat pus audio was a shit tier mess that should be sent to the sun

     snacks likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:30:05 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @maija @icedquinn @meeper wayland has not delivered on its simple proposition of rebuilding from the ground up learning from the past to not retain legacy features and avoid mistakes. wayland should have been a polished pearl from the beginning but instead it's missing expected functionality and creating new problems.
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:31:29 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija

     @sun@shitposter.world @maija@netzsphaere.xyz @icedquinn@blob.cat we need one insanse loonixer with money who's fed up with this shit and makes a third competing display standard, and the chaos will be pure comedy

     Sick Sun likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:33:05 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @meeper @icedquinn @maija ppl who made wayland came into it as the ppl with the most knowledge and best chance of learning from the history of X and they failed so there's probably no hope for the right thing
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:37:18 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @meeper @icedquinn @maija the real reason for wayland was only that ppl who did the actual work were fed up with the x codebase afaict
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:40:12 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @meeper @icedquinn @maija experienced developers understand that rewrites of old software is usually a mistake and will always come with terrible regressions. sometimes it is still necessary.
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     meeper@mai.waifuism.life's status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:40:13 JST meeper

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija

     @sun@shitposter.world @icedquinn@blob.cat @maija@netzsphaere.xyz sad that those people didn't have the restraint to actually do things correctly

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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:47:08 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @maija @icedquinn @meeper nothing beats capital and profit motive to belt out functional software fast, actual concentration on a defined goal will result in something resembling a real product. that is why you have proprietary specialized kernels from as far back as the 1980s that got work done. libre is political, we should be able to see and modify code but the libre process is slower and relies on some rando caring about a feature to get it. unless you're an entrenched libre project with corporate backing
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:47:09 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper thats my complaint with foss in general. its just this mindset/behaiour. 99% of the devs dont know shit and at best its okay code and they just excuse horrific ux or jankiness/bugginess as "just patch it yourself" or "whats the usecase? its still usable"
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:47:14 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @meeper @maija well what they made was anemic. people kept being like we need video recording and they just went :ablobcatgooglytenor:
     
     the BSDs wanted to support wayland but it doesn't even handle events, everyone just decided to hard dep on evdev, so now your kernel has to implement evdev for the compositor to work
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:48:47 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @maija @meeper i kind of remember there being a lot of stuff people wanted to do and they would just issue copes about it being an edge case or some future technology would provide it (like for recording the cope was gstreamer/pipewire some day after never)
     
     but you have stuff like devilpie that still just doesn't work because they're like "ew why would somebody want a program to control windows" and its like :blobcatpain:
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:50:04 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun when i still cared i found dealing with the maintainers to be the most tedious part of the whole process.
     
     like the linus vs cock team vs bcache bullfuckery
     
     @meeper @maija
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:51:00 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @meeper @maija nobody involved recognized that less functionality in any way will be, by users, considered a regression. they i guess considered the airtight security model to be the only goal.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:53:01 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @meeper @maija i read maling lists and i have an intuitive sense of which projects i will never participate in because the have the cancer that is spreading everywhere
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:54:40 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @meeper @maija yeah this is the same issue with flatpak. it trips over itself with too many concerns at once.
     
     i'm also a little unimpressed with ostree. i kind of like what its trying to do, but when i looked up how to use it they talk about having to create all these intermediary branches or else it spends forever dealing with compression (and even then the compression is like really out of date and not multithreaded)
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:55:49 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija I don't think it failed technically.
     Just takes an awful long time to rebuild a graphic display protocol from the ground up plus adapting the existing software for it to the point where everyone already using X11 can switch without hitting a regression. And I do mean a regression, not spacebar-heating, which let's be honest tearing for games is.
     
     And of course socially you end up with usual open-source nerds cat herding.
     Like OStatus→ActivityPub worked remarkably well and I think that's just because there were basically just ~3 implementations involved with few developers each and a pretty small and straightforward protocol in comparison, and most admins/users had nothing to do.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:58:23 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @maija @meeper like the balance between managing the social implications of cooperation against producing a high quality outcome is highly out of balance. every software project is necessarily a social project but it exists to produce software not to be a club
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
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     :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:58:31 JST :segasaturn:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija @sun evangelism did more harm to waymeme than its technicalities, there's a lot of shitters - even here - that were pushing it as an alternative when it was in a state at best called "unfinished" but usually where it could be more appropriately called "broken"
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:59:12 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper 100%
     i like open source because security and privacy through transparency and all of that, and i dont believe in IP, but the foss model is so fucking stupid most the time imho. sure it works sometimes but, generally speaking it leads to a lot of slop. people are fucking stupid and prone to infighting bs, and without proper management and incentives they're not going to make anything good generally speaking, because why would they bother on this shit?
     id much rather non-foss software wih an open source be the norm, public domain license or whatnot
     hell proprietary if i could trust it
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 21:59:51 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @maija @meeper theres still open tickets about using zstd
     
     i'm kind of mixed because zstd is a rather large code blob. you can get close to the same performance with RoLZ with huffman tables slapped on*, and the whole ordeal is <5k SLOC. but as far as i know there isn't like a helpful deployable lib for that (there is 'orz' in rust but its kind of just done as a concept.)
     
     i think you could do what they are doing with fastcdc (to chunk up images), a chunk store, and maybe an sccs weave to store the chunklist for revisions, though i dunno if rolz'ing up individual chunks would be useful (borg et all do this but it does kind of lose inter-chunk rendundancy stuff at the LZ layer), although a chunk store does require stash space and one of the big deployments of ostree is to shove OTA updates for embedded ewaste
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:00:56 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija i acknowledge everything you say about why it's hard I just also thing wayland failed.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:01:45 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @maija @meeper it didnt fail forever it will eventually be good and a totally viable replacement but its just not going to be what was promised
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:02:04 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @takao @icedquinn @meeper @maija @sun Yeah that too, which turned it into some horrible form of vi vs. emacs in some spaces.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:02:19 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @maija @meeper @sun yeah foss kind of demonstrates that most people are just serfs and you have a small number of people who actually organize humanity in to something respectable
     
     unfortunately the doms also hate one another most of the time
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:03:49 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @maija @meeper @sun the cybernetics guys kind of touch on this by saying the absolute best way to manage freedom is if everyone is also responsible for dealing with it but in practice this doesn't actually work
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:04:54 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija Well most promises I hear from people about wayland were lies due to some form of telephone game.
     
     And for me a fail is rather permanent, quite like how say BeOS failed.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:05:53 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija @takao every big conflict in tech that is framed as toxicity has an additional thing in common that is the real cause, unacknowledged: they were presented as an objectivly better alternative and forced into distributions way before they were functional, and people that complained were told to shut up. this is comical because up to this point a bunch of the same people were saying that floss should consider users as equal stakeholders to technical stewards, then users said hey this is unacceptable regression and they were told you are not a programmer you don't know what's best.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:07:27 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija my perspective on wayland is it replaced one set of problems with a different set and it wasn't supposed to do that.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:07:27 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun in principle i am ok with the idea of users being stakeholders and i kind of do that when i had a say in anything.
     
     although obligations do need reciprocity, and a lot of users want to be stakeholders in decisions without participating in the debts
     
     @meeper @maija @lanodan @takao
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:10:04 JST iced depresso

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     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @maija @meeper @sun yeah in practice that's how humans work. order has to be imposed on them, nice things have to be actively managed and propagated.
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     Maija (maija@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:10:05 JST Maija

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     @icedquinn @meeper @sun agreed but dom is a weird word to use here
     not to get too political but i personally believe in a justified hierarchy throughout life for exactly this reason. people are just not built the same and in this case you can see the chaottic approach of foss development is just prone to infighting and ego and issues
     the best foss projects i've seen that werent commercial were all virtually one man jobs, ruled with an iron fist, practically managed without any foss idealism, things of this sort.
     sqlite being a great example of open source when you take this foss element out of it
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:11:11 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @maija @meeper @takao things like systemd had a lot of support from core and important developers and stewards of projects because I think they perceived that time for change had come but they kept replacing things that worked with reimplementations that broke shit while disregarding complaints which is a bad look.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:11:36 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija @takao Yeah Fedora pulled that monstrous crap, really made me go like "Yup, I am even less going to ever touch this distro".
     
     Best is like even if you'd use wayland as a daily driver, there could still be few cases where you do want an actual X11 server, specially as a developer.
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:11:36 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Matrix-Sasuke :ablobcool:
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @matrixsasuke this isn't really true. hosting isn't free, developers have medical bills and so.
     
     i may have written sound adapters and people used them to make music but nobody was paying for my broken glasses.
     
     @meeper @maija @lanodan @sun @takao
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     Matrix-Sasuke :ablobcool: (matrixsasuke@fedi.absturztau.be)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:11:38 JST Matrix-Sasuke :ablobcool:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @meeper @maija @lanodan @sun @takao THERE ARE NO DEBTS IN FREE SOFTWARE! ONLY FREEDOM!
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:12:31 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija It always will.
     You can't simply solve all problems, at some point you do need to face reality and make hard choices.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:15:21 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija I don't think a truly honest pitch for wayland would have flown so they necessarily had to pretend that it was just going to replace X with something betterl.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:16:24 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @meeper @maija @lanodan it basically would if it handled window messaging and negotiating a vulkan surface to composite with
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:30:09 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija Well IIRC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44 was a pretty honest pitch.
     
     And like X11 just doesn't works well for:
     - Multiple GPUs, or worse hotpluggable ones
     - Displays with different refresh rate
     - Managing different colorimetry on displays (pretty important when graphic tablets got displays since)
     - Fractional scaling
     
     Plus pretty sure you can't just directly encode screen content (specially something like a window) to a video stream on X11 without copying being involved, meaning higher CPU usage and much higher latency.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:31:35 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija I think that wayland was necessary, I don't seriously think that staying on x was viable.
   • Embed this notice
     :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:34:48 JST :segasaturn:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @lanodan @maija @meeper I remember how amusing it was to watch Arch (btw)'s mental gymnastics in redefining what KISS and their own stupid ideological principles meant when they were pushing systemstd, good times.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:36:16 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @maija @meeper
     
     something I have been thinking about
     
     you are an alternative software. you have users. there is a subset of users that are power users. they are on your offering becauese they can do something they can't do somewhere else to maximize their output. this is the sum of all the weird features your software provides. most users don't use them. you may be tempted to remove features that only a small subset of your users use. the problem is that the people that rely on these weird features are all your most vociferous defenders and advocates. they are also loudest if you remove these features. well, now youre calling your former defenders toxic and they're leaving, now whats your value proposition.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:40:56 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @icedquinn @lanodan @maija @meeper linux desktop is niche, your value proposition is either you are a plausible alternative to what windows or macos provides, you are probably always at a disadcantage because you're just a copy not the real thing; or, you let people customize the shit out of their desktop, which is a highly personal thing for many people. well, then you replace a major component of the desktop and a bunch of window managers and workflows etc don't work anymore. the people that are actually enthusiastic about linux on the desktop aren't enthusiastic anymore, they're angry. well, what did you expect
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:43:36 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija Which for me is horrible, because they actually are toxic on a regular basis (like freetards are well know for…), just that suddenly the targets changed.
     
     And when it's libre software (which for me is first and foremost participatory) I find it particularly annoying because they typically won't get involved at all, so can't even ask if they are using the feature and how.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:46:19 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija come to terms that in the real world your users are toxic and that's not going to change.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:51:38 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija Not entirely sure it's a users thing.
     I think it's also that the public personalities love to be, so then the users get at least influenced into being toxic because it can seem cool or see it as something okay to be instead of reflecting on it.
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 22:54:47 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Maija
     @lanodan @icedquinn @meeper @maija my experience in the real world is that a lot of techy people are jjust naturally rude and hostile before they even touch a keyboard
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and Another Linux Walt Alt like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 23:07:33 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija Yeah which is why for me it's part of growing up.
   • Embed this notice
     Emi Yusa (gnuxeava@fedi.absturztau.be)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 23:26:43 JST Emi Yusa

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @icedquinn @meeper @maija the recent events say the kernel is doomed. Full blown bastardization is imminent.
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mothball蛾玉 (和文化研究部) (moth_ball@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 23:27:54 JST mothball蛾玉 (和文化研究部)

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun @lanodan @icedquinn @maija @meeper for many it'll be hard to become a people person after being targeted maliciously for most of their lives for various reasons
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Monday, 25-Nov-2024 01:34:49 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • iced depresso
     • :segasaturn:
     • Sick Sun
     • Maija
     @sun
     
     For anyone wondering why I switched to a Mac after over 20 years of exclusively using Linux for my personal machines including desktop and laptop
     
     @icedquinn @meeper @maija @lanodan @takao
     Sick Sun likes this.