Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:13:07 JST 『VRISKA』

   • バツ子（傷者

   @ageha I will never understand how self hosted email = microblogging

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:13:06 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     @vriska @ageha how is this hard, your email has @gmail.com or it has @outlook.com because it's not on the same machine but you can still send email
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:14:20 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun
     @vriska @ageha if they ask why, just say "some people want to live in a house not in an apartment so they can paint it whatever color they want"
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:16:20 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun
     @ageha @vriska tbh lately when people ask (and I have gotten asked by ppl irl about "mastodon") I say the difference is mainly political and if you don't care about running your own shit or being free from censorship then it just is a clone of twitter with tons of problems that will never get "fixed"
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:32:59 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • ≠
     @amerika @vriska @ageha I have no problem talking to the people that actually want to listen to me.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:33:00 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @vriska @ageha
     
     the censorship on mainstream fedi is insane
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:35:23 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • ≠
     • Sick Sun
     @amerika @ageha @vriska the different way of thinking about fedi compared to twitter is that fedi makes it so two people that want to talk to each other can, while using the same app or interface or whatever, it doesn't guarantee you access to the entire fediverse. it removes the global cop that twitter has but it doesn't remove every little cop governing their fief.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:37:54 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • ≠
     • Sick Sun
     @ageha @amerika @vriska the missing component from fedi right now is your identity is held hostage by your instance admin if you don't run your own infra. so you can make yourself subject to a little cop, and if that cop turns evil it's costly to escape their rule because they own your nick. this is a known problem and separation of identity and instance is being worked on. maybe mastodon will never support it but the good side of fedi will (it's two networks at this point)
   • Embed this notice
     mothball蛾玉 (和文化研究部) (moth_ball@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:57:50 JST mothball蛾玉 (和文化研究部)

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • ≠
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @ageha @amerika @vriska If someone wants to actively ruin your online experience for a very long time I don't know if having the identity be separate helps that much. Unless you mean the admin starting to skinwalk with the account that used to be yours, which would probably be solved by that.
     
     Once you make a new account and get in touch with a few people that used to follow you, recovery becomes progressively faster over time.
     
     Obviously you know more of the technical subject than me, but I'm thinking in a broader social sense.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 23-Nov-2024 21:57:50 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • ≠
     • mothball蛾玉 (和文化研究部)
     @moth_ball @ageha @amerika @vriska there are reasons to keep an identity when you leave an instance, and there are reasons to leave it behind. you should be able to do either.
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:52:44 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @ageha was talking with ageha about this last night and while the email infra analogy is both correct and helpful on a technical level, the first day I ever posted here 8.5 years ago the way I had it explained to me was "It's like twitter or myspace or any other microblogging website, but the infrastructure means you get to pick your rules and site theme and who you talk to" and only after that did the email analogy do anything but turn me off from the concept

     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:52:45 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @ageha issue is that the UX is nothing at all like email. start with "It's a microblogging platform that's decentralized" and THEN explain infra

   • Embed this notice
     受不了包 (shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:30:07 JST 受不了包

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @vriska@lizards.live @sun@shitposter.world @ageha@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu clearly you have not joined any mailing lists

   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:30:08 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @ageha the other main reason the email analogy falls flat to me from a UX standpoint is that as far as I'm aware you can't view chronological timelines of every email anyone you care about is sending to other people you care about, like, yeah it totally makes sense to explain it that way from an infrastructure standpoint, but to people like me (the uninformed) its better to start with something I'm familiar with (bad social media) before getting into the actually interesting detail

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:33:17 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     @vriska @shibao @ageha tbh I didn't understnd the argument about email having to be visible to understand it as an analog to fediverse, it's just about delivery
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:33:18 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @shibao @ageha @sun point me to one that shows the emaila 2.5k people send to 1.7k people

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:37:49 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     @vriska @shibao @ageha I guess my problem is I don't think you can describe the difference or the value proposition of the Fediverse from a UX perspective except to say it's objectively and fundamentally worse than any proprietary centeralized service you compare it to
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:37:50 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @shibao @ageha its literally the UX

     the UX of fedi and email are fundamentally different. you start by explaining the UX to well-meaning, curious, but otherwsie clueless normies then you describe infra.

     like I said, if my first intro to this place was "It's like gmail talking to hotmail" you never would've seen me post again

   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:40:18 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @shibao @ageha thats on you tbh, this is the second best social media UX I've ever used

     and I'm not saying UX is the be all end all. I'm saying its much easier to make someone understand something if you start with common ground "It's like [thing you use in function] but not in form" then describe the form after

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:40:18 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     @vriska @shibao @ageha ok but clearly a ton of people disagree with you because they leave and say it's awful
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:41:19 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun
     @vriska @ageha @shibao I'm not trying to be combative here just that when it comes to aesthetics and personal perception people are never wrong for how they "feel"
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:42:30 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     @vriska @shibao @ageha I won't defend an analogy that doesn't help so I appreciate whatever good analogies come out of this conversation
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:42:31 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • バツ子（傷者
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @shibao @ageha 1) good riddance 2) thats what I mean by well-meaning but otherwise clueless

     those people want "twitter without le nazis

     and i dont think telling them fedi is email is going to help retention rates

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:46:43 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @Alex @vriska @shibao tbh I considered the analogy to be practically a UX analogy because the only difference is there's extra junk after your username like an email, what are the other meaningful UX differences?
   • Embed this notice
     :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw: (alex@boymilk.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:46:44 JST :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • Sick Sun
     beyond the whole thing about it being like email having basically nothing to do with the UX it's also something that's just going to be confusing to the vast majority of people you try explaining it to. people don't know or care about how email works under the hood and they don't realize it's even possible to run your own email or have different email hosts. as far as the average person - the kind of person who actually needs fedi explained to them to understand - is concerned, email is just gmail and hotmail and some businesses have their own email names. you pick gmail or hotmail (or i guess outlook now) and that's it, those are the two options. all of the things about email that people try using as reference points to explain fedi are things that people dont even know about (or just dont care about) email. the only sort of person that analogy would actually work on is the sort of person who doesn't need it, because the people who actually care about that shit with email probably don't need fedi explained to them. if you've found the unicorn who selfhosts his email but is struggling to understand fedi, sure, go ahead and use that analogy, he's the one in a million it'll actually help for.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:50:38 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @Alex @vriska @shibao ok but why does that need additional explanation to differentiate it from like twitter?
   • Embed this notice
     :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw: (alex@boymilk.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:50:39 JST :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • Sick Sun
     It's a social media service where I can look at other people's posts and jump into random conversations and anyone can see stuff I post and respond to it, rather than being private one-to-one communications.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:53:09 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @vriska @Alex @shibao rn I'm not defending the email thing I'm asking why you need anything at all if the UX is just Twitter
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:53:10 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao have you ever jumped into a random email thread you werent CC'd in without havintg the cops called on you?

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:56:05 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @vriska @Alex @shibao so right that is similar to what I said I have switched to earlier, I say the difference is political and if you don't care about the politics then the difference is irrelevant
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:56:06 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao 'its twitter without money being poured into an algorithm or corporate entities controlling what you see or it being run by a huge faggot (first jack, then Elon

     then after that if someone is into it (like I was) you actually teach them infra

   • Embed this notice
     :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw: (alex@boymilk.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:57:10 JST :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • Sick Sun
     Because twitter is run by people I hate and moderated by people I hate who believe they can use it as a tool to manipulate human behavior in ways that I hate to achieve goals that I hate
     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:58:00 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao even people who dont give a shit about politics hate algos and non-chron by default feeds

     Sick Sun likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:58:44 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao in fact ive seen more people defend those two things who are politically opiniated in either way than I have "just want to grill" types

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 07:58:44 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @vriska @Alex @shibao that is a good point althought I think just as many people don't even know what you mean about a chronological timeline as do. but it's an argument that could work
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 08:02:30 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao I'm REALLY not a fan of XCKD or whatever but that one comic of "experts in fields always assume layman knowledge is 4x what it actually is" applies here

   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 08:02:30 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     @vriska @Alex @shibao I am taking the position right now that people are dumber than you are saying lol
   • Embed this notice
     『VRISKA』 (vriska@lizards.live)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 08:03:09 JST 『VRISKA』

     in reply to

     • 受不了包
     • :trans_paw:⛧Alex⛧:trans_paw:
     • Sick Sun

     @sun @Alex @shibao from personal experience I'm not sure that's true, you just need to word it as "you see posts in the order they were made" instead of "you see what we think you care about or else

     Sick Sun likes this.