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1. Embed this notice
   mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:25:38 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:
   https://www.patreon.com/posts/trouble-in-116412665
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:28:54 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @mangeurdenuage
     
     > To summarize what recently happened in the Python community: Someone uploaded a package named "slut". Their CoC-equivalent immediately removed it, bypassing all normal process. And then a long standing and well liked developer of many years was banned, fully (even Guido van Rossum wasn't allowed to speak with him!) for three months, for having the temerity to argue with the wrong people.
     
     ah god i'm too tired for the need to take the python and linux foundation out behind the woodshed right now
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
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     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:39:19 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn
     People who force in CoCs are either useful tools or tyrants or both.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:43:21 JST iced depresso

     in reply to
     @mangeurdenuage i think the fact their answer to "why do you need ultimate authority that bypasses the board?" is "ban :neocat_bottom:" is enough evidence the concept should be purged across all communities, but what do i know
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: and Fish of Rage like this.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:50:40 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to
     @mangeurdenuage I think he is brushing over the issues with Rust in the kernel, it seems to me there is blame on both sides but the Rust people are definitely asking for changes to how things have been done in the kernel forever with regard to API compatibility between releases. My conclusion at the end of it was, if you want Rust in your kernel make your own kernel using Rust from the ground up, it's a burden to force Rust requirements on a very large and old C project
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 22:58:10 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun I agree. I think the main reason they want to push rust in the kernel is notably to force acceptance of it.
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:04:46 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @mangeurdenuage some people whose opinion I trust are telling me that the author of the article is causing some of this because of a kind of style on the mailing list that unnecessarily puts people in defensive mode and isn't conducive to solving problems. I don't know but I supposed it is possible both that this person caused their own problems to get taken up with the CoC, while also being true that CoCs operating without transparency are scummy.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:05:43 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage cocks are even more pointless than HR departments, and twice as authoritarian
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:07:28 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage My current belief is that while the idea is plausible in theory, in practice they all were created in bad faith to purge people using vague rules.
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:08:56 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage a fundamental problem, and one I have had to grapple with from running this site, is it's impossible to write a set of rules to cover all misbehavior but the more rules you add the more you're killing the golden goose.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:09:45 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage basically yes.
     
     people went along with it because most of the docs were basically just re-stating netiquette and what was already the platform rules for the most part. but there is zero reason to have cock "teams" let alone weird bypass powers where they don't answer to anyone and have dictatorial control over the boards and shit.
     
     biden tried to float one of these for scotus too
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: and Fish of Rage like this.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:09:46 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Asa
     @asa @mangeurdenuage he's better than he used to be but like the russian maintainer thing proved he'll still be a dickhead when he knows he can get away with it.
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Asa (asa@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:09:47 JST Asa

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage aren’t kernel mailing lists basically a pub for sailors at 3am
     
     I think I remember Linus calling someone mentally retarded
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:10:17 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage i think after nixos and python these people deserve a total loss of faith at minium and severe abuse at most
     Fish of Rage likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:11:02 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage
     step 1: that won't happen
     step 2: that isn't what's happening
     step 3: yes it's happening, what are you gonna do about it
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:12:24 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage the problem is controllers are great at optics and you are basically staging a huge walkout over something they've successfully mindfucked people in to believing is a good thing.
     
     they will counter-PR with the usual nazi drivel, and you'd need nontrivial resources to set up a proper fork and organize a "drop cock or walk" campaign
     Fish of Rage likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:12:41 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa
     @sun @asa I think the matter is more complex considering the fundings of the LFoundation. But I don't want to elaborate on "politics". To say it could have been done in a much more peaceful (and punk) matter.
     Fish of Rage likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:14:59 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage the good news is as the sociopaths accumulate cases of confirmed abuse it becomes easier to hold up that list as counter-evidence to justify a purge, but it still requires enough high profile people get unfairly injured to use that tactic
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:15:43 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Asa
     @mangeurdenuage @asa I don't want to re-litigate it but I'll restate my position: yes the LF is bound by US sanctions, Yes the sanctions make sense at a national level, yes it is justifiably offensive to people to see it happen anyway, yes tons of people were going to be unhappy when this inevitably happened, yes kernel core needed to communicate this as clearly as legally possible, no instead of doing that they did it in the way that was guaranteed to create the most conflict, yes it was completely unnecessary to do that.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: and mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: like this.
   • Embed this notice
     Asa (asa@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:18:45 JST Asa

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa
     @sun @mangeurdenuage and by decentralized I don’t really know what I mean tbh
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:18:45 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa
     @asa @sun The cathedral and the bazaar.
   • Embed this notice
     Asa (asa@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:18:46 JST Asa

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @mangeurdenuage
     
     > open source code project
     > people are volunteers basically
     > tied to boomer laws
     
     Why
     
     Honestly the rust guys should remake the kernel in rust then just have it be a fully decentralized cypher punk project
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:19:23 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Asa
     @asa @mangeurdenuage incorporation in the united states. maybe they should find a better country to host.
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:21:35 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa
     @asa @sun All GPL project are by nature decentralized as it doesn't require a central authority.
     People can gladly contribute to the main linux kernel if they wish AND if they are accepted.
     If they are not then they are free as in freedom to fork and do the changes they do.
     Such is what is for example the linux-libre project.
     And it doesn't stop the main kernel people to bring back peaces made in the linux-libre fork into the main kernel. as the GPL allows sharing.
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:23:04 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa
     @sun @asa Like....what country is out of reach of the US golem ?
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:23:40 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Asa
     @mangeurdenuage @asa maybe they would make a special effort to intervene but like openbsd is run out of canada
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:29:17 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • frogzone
     • Asa
     @frogzone @asa @mangeurdenuage we believe love is love
   • Embed this notice
     frogzone@wizard.casa's status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:29:18 JST frogzone

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Asa

     @sun @mangeurdenuage @asa no, the reds are not under the bed, yes a russian can volunteer on a project, yes bitcoin exists.

   • Embed this notice
     Rusty Crab (rustycrab@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Thursday, 21-Nov-2024 23:52:16 JST Rusty Crab

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage these guys should really just defect to China at this point. Go somewhere you're appreciated.
     Fish of Rage likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:46:31 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun @mangeurdenuage This is all on the record on the the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML)! Could someone provide links to relevant threads instead of all this vagueness?

   • Embed this notice
     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:46:31 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     @sun @mangeurdenuage OK, here's the Official Linux CoC ruling: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/6740fc3aabec0_5eb129497@dwillia2-xfh.jf.intel.com.notmuch/

     And they have a point about in the message they link to "Get your head examined. And get the fuck out of here with this shit." but it seems to be an entirely appropriate thing to say, or what back in the days when the Linux project cared about the very difficult task of quality in a mass of C code they frequently didn't understand the behavior of.

     The guy he's replying to is non-responsive, which might or might not be legit, but the claims both technical and hammering language seem to be legit, "Michal, if you think crashing processes is an acceptable alternative to error handling you have no business writing kernel code."

     And he's being attacked by a notorious pajeet woman SJW in her CoC role, who is not working in good faith

     Here this now banned for a full Linux development cycle guy lays out his general, long term problem with two people on the memory management team of Linux: https://lore.kernel.org/all/nu6cezr5ilc6vm65l33hrsz5tyjg5yu6n22tteqvx6fewjxqgq@biklf3aqlook/ And then about how badly this CoC member is handing things, like "a bad HR department."

     And unless he's lying through his teeth the MM team was not working in good faith. He also apologized in the email thread.... Thus the pajeet's demands for a public apology are as someone in the thread noted a humiliation ritual, exactly what we've learned to expect from people from the subcontinent.

     That said, Overstreet was (and maybe still is?) absolutely refusing to work with Team Linus/Kernel using the necessary technical processes they've developed, he just doesn't respect it one can infer. But this is not the way to address that problem, I wouldn't be surprised if this CoC committee action is also an underhanded effort to push him out of kernel development altogether.

     I'll reply in my next posting on how all this mess has revealed the Linux kernel is in DEFCON 2 and I am moving to DEFCON 1 in looking at alternates.

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:47:05 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @mangeurdenuage he should apologize for what he said, it was unprofessional and rude,
   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 02:47:50 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • That Would Be Telling
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @mangeurdenuage I don't know if greg making veiled threats is against the coc but he should have reported them anyway
   • Embed this notice
     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 03:44:06 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun @mangeurdenuage As I said, "He also apologized in the email thread...."

     In more detail, he says he apologized directly and privately to the Team Memory Management guy he insulted and implicitly says that almost immediately, and then after the CoC's ban published that email. He also made at least three other apologies in the email thread before that point.

     I went through the whole thing again to confirm and correct my memory, here's the receipts including some reactions to the CoC mess:

     The original crime: https://lore.kernel.org/all/citv2v6f33hoidq75xd2spaqxf7nl5wbmmzma4wgmrwpoqidhj@k453tmq7vdrk/

     The first two apologies, and he claims Team CoC knows about Greg's behavior; implicitly we can see they don't care: https://lore.kernel.org/all/nu6cezr5ilc6vm65l33hrsz5tyjg5yu6n22tteqvx6fewjxqgq@biklf3aqlook/

     And that sealed his fate, no way a woman pajeet is going to accept being called out like that. In general, putting pajeets including women in positions of power over others—technically not in their jati and at or below them in caste, but that's very likely or for the former guaranteed with non-pajeets— results in utterly callous treatment.

     At base, no matter how much they seem to have adapted to Western culture with its claimed universal values, I'm pretty sure they just don't view these people as human or fully human. And, yes, I've experienced this first hand several times (but I know as peers moved to the US they can be OK or better).

     "I find the language used by Shuah on behalf of the Code of Conduct committee extremely patronising and passive aggressive" (and more agree in later emails) https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241121042558.GA20176@lst.de/

     Overstreet replying with how she's doing that: ""I'm not the one 'doing' this, I'm just implementing the policy that we all decided on, even though I totally wrote and advocated for that policy'" https://lore.kernel.org/all/thwbzrybt6kk3x6o5ege3h7k6vsip4j6mllxdvn6poldvdczz6@zobwlfwgxhkt/

     MM guy's side of things: https://lore.kernel.org/all/Zz7yqeI0RatH4ao5@tiehlicka/

     Overstreet's reply, with another apology: https://lore.kernel.org/all/nfui5woq5n4lc4xggsflvjqr3gmukfzo64ejxrg4o6iq6ud4ju@rctq63kb43wb/

     Detailed criticism of Team CoC with comparisons to Team Debian and how this cost them people, "This needs mediation, not forced public humiliation." https://lore.kernel.org/all/10576437.nUPlyArG6x@lichtvoll.de/

     Overstreet's reply to the CoC's ban: https://lore.kernel.org/all/o5tbrrk4r3sxtvk7tjyua5h2qaa3fos7446dkxbjyxjwhp4odd@we5elwaeb7dv/

     Fish of Rage likes this.
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 03:45:33 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @mangeurdenuage tbh I understand why people don't like him. he shouldn't be banned and coc rulings should be consistent and applied equally
   • Embed this notice
     That Would Be Telling (thatwouldbetelling@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 04:28:11 JST That Would Be Telling

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage

     @sun @mangeurdenuage "tbh I understand why people don't like him."

     Turns out less than an hour ago he's still totally not getting "kernel development to put in the tree has procedures":

     https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42222749

     "Linus was completely going off there.

     "There are no instances anyone can point to where I've caused regressions in other subsystems, in the course of developing bcachefs. I have had people introduce regressions into my code without following proper channels, though."

     Linus cited here was some error he made somewhere for bigendian systems.

   • Embed this notice
     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 04:28:11 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • That Would Be Telling
     @ThatWouldBeTelling @mangeurdenuage the first reply to that comment seems to be correct
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     Fish of Rage (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 04:45:04 JST Fish of Rage

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Posting Hellbound
     @PostingHellbound @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage yeah fuck them
   • Embed this notice
     Posting Hellbound (postinghellbound@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 04:45:05 JST Posting Hellbound

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     @sun @icedquinn @mangeurdenuage this is evident if you dig into coraline ada ehmke (but i assume everyone knows already, i'm just here to give a keyword to google)
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     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 08:45:40 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • Fish of Rage
     • Posting Hellbound
     @sun @PostingHellbound @mangeurdenuage didn't foursquare try it too? i know this was like the leading conspiracy theory when people started gamifying crowd mobbing a place.
   • Embed this notice
     iced depresso (icedquinn@blob.cat)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 08:46:57 JST iced depresso

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     • Posting Hellbound
     @sun @PostingHellbound @mangeurdenuage maybe whoever backed pokemon was inspired by the crowd mobbing mechanics that were being tried by the other places.
     
     those were mostly marketing gimmicks to get you to go to a particular venue tho
   • Embed this notice
     mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius: (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world)'s status on Sunday, 24-Nov-2024 10:37:34 JST mangeurdenuage :gnu: :trisquel: :gondola_head: 🌿 :abeshinzo: :ignucius:

     in reply to

     • iced depresso
     • Fish of Rage
     • Posting Hellbound
     @PostingHellbound @sun @icedquinn