myrmepropagandist
"Great point, but that's not the case with Mastodon and the Fediverse. "
Not if people want to keep it from becoming more popular. Not if that's a "feature"
Like how am I supposed to pitch this place to anyone with that floating around on here? Should I just not bother?
carl marks
@futurebird I also stopped trying to get people to join. Until some big changes are made, there's just no reason to
carl marks
@futurebird & I hope you are successful, truly. I know that folks you would bring here would enrich the space, and I too am definitely NOT content feeling isolated from Black folks on my primary social media platform.
I think I just lost faith that this space, in the short term, is going to become any less antiblack than it has been. I see a lot of potential in it, and I'm going to keep working to improve my server to make it more welcoming to multiply marginalized folks (and less connected to bigots and fascists).
But for me, I feel like until some big shifts happen in the culture here (some examples might be: a bunch of Black folks join the fediverse, or the white folks who are already here wake up to how alienating the place is and work to fix it, or we get a solid alternative to Mastodon that has a more flexible dev team and safety features get implemented ASAP, you get the idea) then I cannot pitch it to folks without massive disclaimers.
Why would I advocate for my folks to come here when I've so frequently experienced slurs, racist harassment, misgendering, and constant minimization of my experiences? When the vast majority of instances don't lift a finger to actually do anything about it, and the ones that do get harassed by racists until as often as not they shut down and leave? When people froth at the mouth if you mention fediblock or TBS, two of the only tools that have actually made a difference to my users and my mod team?
I tell my friends about this stuff, and none of them want to join. And I don't blame them. So, I hold out hope and keep working and we'll see. If things did start to improve, I 100% would start telling everyone who would listen to come here. I think the fedi is the future of social media, and I believe we'll get there one day. I just don't know if it will be anytime soon.
myrmepropagandist
I've done the opposite of stopping because people are open to new services at the moment I'm looking for everything I can do.
carl marks
@futurebird I agree! Had I the internet clout elsewhere to get folks to join in numbers, I could maybe do something about that. As it stands, most of the folks who listen to me online are already here.
I am on Bluesky currently and am trying to make connections. I do have plans once Bluesky starts to enshittify to try and spread the word, and I am hopeful that things will be better by then.
myrmepropagandist
OK but in my experience no internet space isn't "anti-black" it's just that racism is less annoying when there are other black people around in numbers. And likewise I bet the same thing is true for trans people and many others.
John Mierau, Serving Worlds
@futurebird @eosfpodcast @HumToTable
Its not the glitzy pitch, but I'm trying this one: invest your time and energy in a place that can't be turned to shit for someone else's profit.
Rich Felker
@futurebird @eosfpodcast @HumToTable As for me, I just respond with condescending snark to the ppl who think smallness and "not saving the internet" is a feature, then ignore or block them.
myrmepropagandist
@servingworlds @eosfpodcast @HumToTable
That is what I'm doing and it's very discouraging to find that people in that place are working against me. Or might hate what I'm trying to do.
myrmepropagandist
@Jackiemauro @servingworlds @eosfpodcast @HumToTable
I'm not even talking about "change" just basic outreach. It's not that hard to use the fedi once you get in and the learning hump is less than some other social media in some ways. You see the people you follow. It's less mysterious. There aren't ads distracting you.
I no longer think design choices are the major problem. It's a combination of culture and simply not being a corporation or something that can get an investment hype cycle.
JackieM
@futurebird @servingworlds @eosfpodcast @HumToTable
Thanks for this discussion. I feel like, I have no particular attachment to mastodon being the place everyone is, but also it *has* to be the place everyone *could* be, and be here happily and safely.
And it seems like by saying “we don’t have to be the popular place” it too often functionally ends up being “we don’t need to change to make this a good place for the people who aren’t already here.”
myrmepropagandist
@Jackiemauro @servingworlds @eosfpodcast @HumToTable
People learn to use terrible UI all the time. It's not good to dismiss complaints about UI, because that's insular. And the insular quality isn't very welcoming.
But email remains a dominant force in communication. If email were invented today everyone would have to use gmail or not be able to email someone not on the same service. A few crazy people would talk about "open email" and try to get people to try it.
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