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   Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:22:32 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

   • NEETzsche
   marx is suggesting a kind of 'cycle of history' kind of theory of epistemology here - that epistemology gets developed in the context of academia to the point where it generates something like a fascist movement, and then within that movement it rejects academic epistemology as totally broken(similar to some people here, like @NEETzsche really), substitutes an increasingly complex theory of epistemology of their own comprised of heuristics , which gradually builds to be more complex *internal* to a fascist cult until it, too, is a fully general purpose epistemology powerful enough to generate its own contradictions/counterrevolution
   
   #theholyfamily
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:22:32 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to
     @jeffcliff Why are you tagging me in shit? Didn't you mute me?
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     NEETzsche (neetzsche@iddqd.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:39 JST NEETzsche

     in reply to

     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     • TruthBait
     • CrustyB
     @jeffcliff @CrustyBurgerhead @Xenophon @truthbait Is this a clone of Jeff Cliff? I don't remember him writing in all lower case like a 14 year old girl before. Did the COVID vaccine make him actually retarded?
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     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:40 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     • TruthBait
     • CrustyB
     @CrustyBurgerhead @NEETzsche @Xenophon Honestly i think this is actually a relevant, on topic point when talking about theories of morality / #theholyfamily
     
     that the modern british system of 'king that doesn't do anything' is kind of a hegelian synthesis of the criticalist crticicalists absolute authority and @truthbait -like libertarianism in this context -- that of an absolute despot who does approximately nothing, allowing people to de facto pursue happiness
     
     that the fake ref holds a similar role - that in principle they hold ultimate authority over what happens in the arena but in practice they don't actually do anything and it's all for show.
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     CrustyB (crustyburgerhead@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:42 JST CrustyB

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits
     • TruthBait
     He's like the referee in professional wrestling. He's stupid & pointless but it just isn't the same without him.
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     Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits (xenophon@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:43 JST Sturmführer Xeno Fish Biscuits

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • TruthBait
     > And I'm a leftist.
     
     Jeff is my favorite fedi persona. Complete dedication to the cause. It's like Christopher Walken with his affected voice but better.
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     TruthBait (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:44 JST TruthBait

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     Read the room, dude. America just overwhelmingly rejected this leftist excrement. Enjoy the show. @jeffcliff @NEETzsche

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:44 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • TruthBait
     @truthbait @NEETzsche read the room? this is my thread. About a book written by karl marx. And I'm a leftist. You just butted in on it
     
     > America just overwhelmingly rejected this leftist excrement
     
     America also elected George W Bush. Americans do stupid things all the time
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     TruthBait (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:45 JST TruthBait

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     Hard pass. I don't trust any of you motherf'ckers to defend my safety, let alone my rights. In fact, what I trust is that the collective will act with cold ruthlessness irregardless of morality. Do you want recent examples or extremely recent examples? So take Karl's collective and shove it where it belongs...deep in a corpse's decomposing colon. @jeffcliff @NEETzsche

   • Embed this notice
     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:45 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • TruthBait
     @truthbait @NEETzsche >what I trust is that the collective will act with cold ruthlessness irregardless of morality.
     
     Of course it will it doesn't reason about what it's doing, that's a pretty much guaranteed default that i think the critical criticalist theorists, marx and I would agree with you on.
     
     I think the criticalist crticicalists would argue that it needs to be subverted by an absolutist leader who will make your safety contingent on your slavery/serfdom/etc and your rights only relevant insofar as they are not limited by them
     marx would argue that it *can* be guided by reason [and technology] to *its own* ends[which you aren't going to like in any case, because the rational ends of the collective isn't going to be what you, personally would prefer]
     and I would add your safety and rights depend on the latter if they have any meaning at all -- that as individuals you only get 'rights' as part of a society that guarantees them, you only get safety insofar as the hobbsian external forces of humanity are kept at bay
     
     ie ask people in southern lebanon how much they can protect themselves, as individuals without an effective state protecting them
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     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:46 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • TruthBait
     @truthbait @NEETzsche I think marx would argue here that people create moral systems all the time, and the philosophers who create them are pretty universally hypocrites/"too immoral" (i think nietzsche would agree this far), that some are better than others and what truth means/how to judge these moral systems is what they do in the real world(nietzsche if i'm understanding correctly would leave it subjectively up to you to judge them, and then reason about different choices people make when making that call). And that marx would go further in looking at the moral system specifically created by the critical criticalist theorists as being a kind of microcosm of those made in larger circles(ie europe as a whole) defined by a combination of their material conditions and how far they have been willing to replace the mental shortcuts with actual rational reasoning.
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     TruthBait (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:46 JST TruthBait

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     People have tremendous capacity to act immorally toward each other in the extreme. The only "moral" system in that environment is one that empowers as few people as possible in a way that imposes on another's pursuit of happiness. @jeffcliff @NEETzsche

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     Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧 (jeffcliff@shitposter.world)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:46 JST Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴‍☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche
     • TruthBait
     @truthbait @NEETzsche I think marx would argue otherwise ; that the moral system is the one that doesn't focus on individual people, but focuses on the pursuit by the whole
     
     and he wasn't alone - ch06_3_d is pretty much about those who came before him with the same stance incl bentham
     
     i would agree with him to the extent that it's not the "only" "moral" system, that the individual may not be the right level of abstraction
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     TruthBait (truthbait@noauthority.social)'s status on Thursday, 14-Nov-2024 04:56:47 JST TruthBait

     in reply to

     • NEETzsche

     Maybe it isn't our systems that produce these contradictions, rather the fragile and flawed humans who inhabit them. That's why it's impossible to create and maintain a moral system. In general we're too immoral to pull it off. @jeffcliff @NEETzsche