In #Flancia we'll meet
I took the following AI in the OC meeting: "start a thread or book a meeting to discuss next steps in the messaging space per-WG and cross-WG".
@edumerco @edsu @sam @Matt_Noyes I think you are interested in this topic :) would you like to start by discussing here? I can also start a time slot picking process to meet and discuss synchronously.
Also, anyone else that you think would be interested?
Nathan Schneider
@flancian @edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @dazinism I think it would be great to expand our offerings this way and would love to see us host a Matrix server, esp. since we use Matrix anyway, and to support an important project.
Cf:
https://www.loomio.com/d/5yW7iCsJ/new-social-coop-services-
https://www.loomio.com/d/tOBDu5ap/
https://www.loomio.com/d/gP67te9Z/
In #Flancia we'll meet
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism from all the options, I still believe Matrix is the most future looking and the platform where most of our members *already have accounts*; but I'm OK being swayed by data and other proposals, and don't get me wrong: I liked Zulip a lot when I used it, and I used to help run XMPP for Google and loved it back then.
In #Flancia we'll meet
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism of course it is the working groups that need this the most I believe, but I think if we run an instance at all we should try to make it useful to all the community, because why not? :)
In #Flancia we'll meet
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism on the topic of what the goal would be, I think the ideal outcome is we offer an extra service to the community *with the initial warning that it might have a worse SLO than the mastodon instance*, meaning they shouldn't rely on it for anything critical yet. Then we see how expensive it is to run and we vote as a community on running it or not?
In #Flancia we'll meet
@edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism thank you all for your interest and participation!
Ideally I think we could pursue the following using the fact that one of our VPSes is under-utilized currently:
- Install some or all of: a lightweight Matrix server (e.g. conduit), an XMPP server (something prosody adjacent?), a Zulip instance.
- Share test credentials with people in the working groups and gather feedback/see what catches on and productionize that?
Eduardo Mercovich
@sam
@flancian @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism
There is (or was, at least) a double but effective web client really, I've used it a long time ago.
I will search for it. :)
Sam Whited
@edumerco @flancian @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism I was thinking before that May First has chat and we have May First access but that it probably wouldn't be ideal for us because it is *just* an account and they don't provide a web client or anything (as far as I know?), but it occurred to me later that we could also just use the May First infrastructure and host our own web client (or just a page recommending actual apps for different operating systems).
Eduardo Mercovich
@flancian @edsu @sam @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism
On another different line of thought/software, I had really great experiences with Zulip (https://zulip.com/).
What makes it great from my POV is the serious thread model. It helps to know what is happening, keep context, focus on what matters for you (including notificacions), mark as done, etc.
It is not federated, but it is Free Software and we can self-host it.
Anyone else tried it? Do we want to make a test?
Benjamin Mako Hill
@ntnsndr @flancian @edumerco @sam @edsu @Matt_Noyes @dazinism I would also be very excited about this and happy to help support the effort on whatever easy of helpful?
In #Flancia we'll meet
@dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako @edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant
I checked https://git.coopcloud.tech/coop-cloud for recipes for: zulip, an xmpp server and a matrix server. I found so far:
- the mainline main matrix implementation, presumably slow but well maintained
- snikket (xmpp)
Calix, would recipes for conduit and zulip make sense as contributions?
In #Flancia we'll meet
@dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako
@edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant FYI about possible messaging services experiments ^ :)
In #Flancia we'll meet
@dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako we should set up the services in question using [[coop cloud]], which makes it cheap/quick if the recipes for the services exist. I will check which ones exist and report back.
In any case we would want to set up SSO so people can use the password they use e.g. with the wiki to test.
Which service(s) we try first and which ones we support depends on difficulty and time/interest available within the TWG, assuming no other additional costs for the coop.
In #Flancia we'll meet
@dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako thanks for the feedback both of you!
- I think it's totally workable if it can run comfortably within the VPS that currently only hosts our wiki and our (under-utilized) single-sign-on service, called Hypha. A test should sort that out.
- I don't think the requirements are going to be too different in the end (continued...)
dynamic_hubzilla
Sam Whited
@flancian @edumerco @edsu @Matt_Noyes @mako @ntnsndr @dazinism I'd like to push back on "why not" as a reason to do anything. More specifically, I think we'll have different requirements depending on if this is for all users or just for a few working groups to use (I suspect if it's for all social.coop members as a service those requirements will be a superset of the requirements for if it's just us). We should decide what we want to do here and have a good reason for it up front IMO.
Nathan Schneider
@edumerco @flancian https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako @edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant Oh boo.
Eduardo Mercovich
Hi all.
Some (not so good?) news about matrix.
https://mystical.garden/@fionafokus/113844238932392607
@flancian
@dynamic @sam @dazinism @ntnsndr @mako @edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant
In #Flancia we'll meet
@ntnsndr @edumerco @sam @dazinism @mako @edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant this is a bad move honestly. Reliability and scalability should not be locked behind a paywall. It seems unethical to leave the community with a substandard implementation, systems that don't scale well tend to be inefficient in many ways.
In #Flancia we'll meet
@ntnsndr @edumerco @sam @dazinism @mako @edsu @dphiffer @3wordchant above the best client for xmpp: what's the best web interface? web first is a must for accessibility IMHO
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