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1. Embed this notice
   Bricky (thatbrickster@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Oct-2024 19:23:13 JST Bricky
   Because 'offensive terms' are what holds us back, apparently.
   https://www.phoronix.com/news/NetworkManager-1.50
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Oct-2024 19:23:58 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to
     @thatbrickster ok I looked and it looks like it's just preventing deprecated words from being used. Still though:
     
     >.NetwokeManager
     
     lmao
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Nudhul (nudhul@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Oct-2024 19:27:40 JST Nudhul

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @thatbrickster >typing stuff into files or whatever programmers do
     >see master-slave relation
     >immediately think about blacks
     
     
     another morsel on the mountain of evidence that mentally ill freaks should be sequestered from society
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Friday, 04-Oct-2024 19:27:40 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Nudhul
     @Nudhul @thatbrickster deprecating those terms was dumb but this change is way downstream of that, it looks like it just updates the terms in the file which you will never even see.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 04-Oct-2024 21:12:40 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @thatbrickster Ah yes, not using NetworkManager pays off yet again.
     
     >They silence all words that describe abuses, so that people may no longer point out injustice in clear wordings in future. George Orwell has told us so in 1984. Welcome the newspeak era.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:45:41 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • ランファン
     @leyonhjelm The fact that Linux turned out to be proprietary software really soured that kernel.
     
     Thankfully there's a free of Linux version that I use; https://www.gnu.org/software/linux-libre/
     
     
     NetworkManager appears to run on more than just LiGNUx even.
   • Embed this notice
     ランファン (leyonhjelm@breastmilk.club)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:45:42 JST ランファン

     in reply to

     • 翠星石
     @Suiseiseki
     
     NetworkManager is one of the reasons along with SystemD that I started souring on Linux as a whole. If I can't simply edit a file in /etc rather than using a utility (apart from password-type data that needs to be done in a way that encrypts it) it isn't the right way to do it. And nowadays this shit is barely optional, but I did uninstall it on my Raspberry Pi DNS servers as soon as I had the OS installed. I do not need that extra layer between me and a simple static IP.
     
     @thatbrickster
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:54:13 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • anna in hexile
     @anna @thatbrickster yeah, I may think it's stupid but this particular thing isn't worth getting upset about at all.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:54:14 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @thatbrickster ah yeah looking into it, they're trying to get rid of mostly the master/slave terminology and other kinds of things which, well, free speech includes people deciding they dont want to use particular phrasings anymore to represent themselves and what they make. so this change keeps that terminology that is being depreciated from being written to default configs to ensure that depreciating the old terminology actually sticks. doesn't prevent you from putting whatever you want in the config.
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:57:05 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • anna in hexile
     @anna @thatbrickster that's a good point.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 02:57:07 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     @sun @thatbrickster as annoying as liberals are, i think there's maybe something to not wanting to bring up slavery every time you fuck with your computer internals. a lot of people mad about this kind of thing want to get politics out of things, so what's wrong with doing exactly that lol
   • Embed this notice
     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:34:02 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • anna in hexile
     @anna @nicholas @thatbrickster I am okay with some of the changes but overall I resist making changes because it turns into a dominance flex that just leads to more unnecessary changes. I can be sold on changing master/slave but much further beyond that I'm okay with saying you don't get accommodated if things offend you because you're bringing your own thing to it that wasn't even there.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:34:03 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     • anna in hexile
     @nicholas @sun @thatbrickster i read something yesterday about an easter age for the man command where if you did it at exactly 12:30 AM without a page specified, it would say "gimmie gimmie gimmie", a reference to the abba song. it was there for six years, and they didn't think that would cause any problems and just be fun. but then there were automated testing suites in CI systems that would trigger this and fail tests and builds because of it, and that was the six years that CI and devops like, became a thing. after that happened, they removed the easter egg because it had been six years, the joke has run its course. i don't see updating some language to get away from unintended implications and consequences as fundamentally any different than this.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:34:04 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     @nicholas @sun @thatbrickster sure, but times and context change. people are going to make wrong assumptions about what that means so it makes sense to bring the lowest common denominator to something without unintentional implications. i doubt people will stop saying blacklist/whitelist but that's fine, it's not a slur, especially for the reasons you mentioned. but for the thing that is placed in front of everyone in such a wide variety of contexts that you could never even imagine all of them, it's good to keep things unambiguous. we design UIs and iterate on them this way, nothing wrong with doing that with language, too.
   • Embed this notice
     Nicholas Conrad (nicholas@aklp.club)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:34:05 JST Nicholas Conrad

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • anna in hexile

     Sure, for "master/slave", but "blacklist/whitelist" references how Athenians voted, placing either a white or black pebble into a jar, not at all related to skin colors. So "allowlist/denylist" stans are actually literally anti-democratic.

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     Nicholas Conrad (nicholas@aklp.club)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:38:17 JST Nicholas Conrad

     in reply to

     • Sick Sun
     • anna in hexile

     If schools taught kids history instead of division and grievances, then people wouldn't make wrong assumptions about the context as times change.

   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:38:17 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     @nicholas @sun @thatbrickster i think learning about the history of democracy as well as the history of oppression are important, free speech includes things you don't like talking about, like how horrible slavery was (and still is), and how the repercussions can still be felt today
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:48:04 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • anna in hexile
     @anna @nicholas @thatbrickster I don't completely discard offense as a reason to change things, I think master/slave is a reasonable change because it bothers people. I actually find it much more convincing than the other argument that black/white for ex. increases cognitive load for language to use metaphors and idioms. I thought you made some good arguments I just still have some reasoned reservations.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:48:05 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @nicholas @thatbrickster i think many people dogging on these changes flatten their opposition to it being about "offense" which is incomplete at best, and arguably inaccurate. these changes are being made for thoughtful reasons, some of which i have outlined here, not because they're npc oids doing current thing, and if you truly are opposed to this or anything really, you need to be honest with yourself about what the opposition is.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:50:08 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     @sun @nicholas @thatbrickster yeah fair enough! like my initial reaction to blacklist/whitelist was also that it's a bit silly to racialize, but then I thought past that first reaction and realize there's some good arguments for changing it, even if it's not as clear cut of a change as master/slave
     Sick Sun likes this.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:50:43 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • anna in hexile
     @anna @nicholas @thatbrickster I am kind of reactionary on some of these things but I'm trying to approach them with a bit more empathy these days at least.
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     Sick Sun (sun@shitposter.world)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:53:24 JST Sick Sun

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • anna in hexile
     @anna @nicholas @thatbrickster I have run into this recently. I just changed it to be more descriptive to the context of the program yeah.
   • Embed this notice
     anna in hexile (anna@hexile.witches.live)'s status on Saturday, 05-Oct-2024 03:53:26 JST anna in hexile

     in reply to

     • Nicholas Conrad
     • Sick Sun
     • anna in hexile
     @sun @nicholas @thatbrickster also i s2g there's some software ive used that has used blacklists and whitelists in confusing fucking double negative ways that were really annoying and they might have made something better in the first place if it was called allowlist and denylist instead lmao