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   Kelvin Shadewing (kelvinshadewing@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 08:34:27 JST Kelvin Shadewing

   Can we please replace #freesoftware with #libresoftware ? I keep hearing people confusing free software with freeware, and no amount of Stallman hemming and hawing is going to change that. Libre exclusively means "liberty". It's clear and easy and doesn't run the risk of people mislabeling gratis but proprietary software as free software.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Saturday, 20-Jul-2024 08:34:27 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     libre works well in the west; not so much elsewhere, where spanish and french aren't familiar
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     Kelvin Shadewing (kelvinshadewing@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 28-Jul-2024 17:59:07 JST Kelvin Shadewing

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     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo True, but does "free" work as well or any better? I imagine translation would be needed either way.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 28-Jul-2024 17:59:07 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     free works generally better than libre where libre is meaningless, but English is spoken as a foreign language. it may needs clarification (free as in freedom, or free as in free people), but numerous (most?) other languages have distinct adjectives for freedom and for zero-price, so the concept gets across
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     Kelvin Shadewing (kelvinshadewing@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 02:37:34 JST Kelvin Shadewing

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo So wouldn't saying "free" in English to them just lead to the same issue? Why not just call it their word for "freedom" instead?

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Monday, 29-Jul-2024 02:37:34 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     no. free is understood by English speakers worldwide, more so when disambiguated to freedom. libre just brings about a blank stare for most earthlings.
     if there's an opportunity for localization, sure, by all means go for terms that work for the target audience. we speak of software li[bv]re in latin america, and that serves us well. but it's a global movement, and the closest thing we have to a global lingua franca is (ironically) no longer french. latin is no longer that popular either. that role is currently played by english, and unfortunately the term 'free' got corrupted over time. but people seldom get the wrong idea from e.g. 'land of the free', so we should be fine as long as newspeak doesn't take over
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     Kelvin Shadewing (kelvinshadewing@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 12:15:43 JST Kelvin Shadewing

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo But that's exactly my point, "free" changes meaning based on context, so when paired with "software" it sounds like "beer". People don't know what "libre" means, so instead of making an assumption, they'll ask for clarification. Free is associated with freedom in reference to places or practices, such as land or speech, but in reference to products, it's taken as cost, such as beer or real estate. Software is seen as a product, hence the confusion.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Wednesday, 31-Jul-2024 12:15:43 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     I see you may have a point, but my rigidity won't allow me to go along with it: to me, that 'free of charge' became shortened into a twisted version of 'free' is not a reason to give up the term, but to fight for its most relevant meaning. and there's another counterpoint: software *is* speech (that's why it's copyrightable), and there's value in opposing productization and establishing it as expressive and cultural media, where freedom should prevail over market forces