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too many conservatives still think being nice is how you win in the world.
- AlabasterBrick ?☠️ repeated this.
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@sickburnbro the next few months will be a difficult growth period for the normie right
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@boeswilligkeit I expect no growth because I enjoy being surprised and being wrong about it costs little ( mainly planning time )
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@jeffcliff jeff, do you believe in democracy?
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@sickburnbro I'm not going to forget that you and people like you came for the jobs of poor, rural whites who happened to hate trump.
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@jeffcliff "generally" isn't a yes. You don't "generally" believe in vaccinations.
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@sickburnbro generally yes
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@jeffcliff my point is calling for the assassinations of political figures is incompatible with democracy.
We've heard liberal people say "speech has consequences" for 10 years. This thus is speech that should, at minimum, have consequences.
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@sickburnbro What is your point
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@jeffcliff So either speech should never get people fired, or this is an acceptable thing to fire people for.
If speech shouldn't get people fired, I think non-progressive people don't believe progressives when they say "oh, we should totally change the rules now that they are being enforced on me"
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@sickburnbro
> my point is calling for the assassinations of political figures is incompatible with democracy.
Not in america. America *explicitly* has in its founding documents a call to arms against tyrannical government. American style democracy *requires* the use of arms from time to time and its history has examples that exemplify it.
> This thus is speech that should, at minimum, have consequences.
I don't take issue with that.
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@jeffcliff The whole point of calling for assassinations is: "I don't want to democracy anymore"
I agree that american as a culture is not entirely democratic.
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@jeffcliff yes, I'm well aware mob rule is fickle. I *had* a nice country which had protections against mob rule, but then the mob came and stripped them all away.
I don't know if you've notice but politely asking to oh, have senators elected by the state for instance, isn't even an option. What *is* an option it seems, is doing away with the electoral college.
Strangely when rural randos got fired for donating to say, Rittenhouse's defense, THAT was fine.
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@sickburnbro
> So either speech should never get people fired, or this is an acceptable thing to fire people for.
Ah there's the sickburnbro manipulative argument that I've come to expect from you.
Firing someone for their speech is a different thing than a coordinated mob going around targetting rural randos for expressing beliefs they know full well people around them hold.
> If speech shouldn't get people fired, I think non-progressive people don't believe progressives when they say "oh, we should totally change the rules now that they are being enforced on me"
Mob rule is fickle, and they will turn on people like you.
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@doctorsex @jeffcliff I don't actually "just want to remove leftists" I want to know the rules are going to be followed.
How do YOU suggest that happen, jeff?
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>he just wants to remove leftists from their jobs in what goes even beyond tit-for-tat compensation for right-wingers being similarly targeted
How exactly does it go beyond when you yourself are acknowledging the similarity
>he just wants to remove leftists from their jobs
Why should I feel bad about this
>Are you a real doctor, btw?
Yes. I take my credentials very seriously. Do you think I would lie about that
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@doctorsex
>What exactly is manipulative about it? You either believe speech is an acceptable reason for termination or it isn't
Speech alone isn't. This is clearly more than just speech - some of it borders on a call to action of assasination of a political figure. That's a speech act. Calling for the assassination of your president has *always* been something you can get in legal hot water for but at the same time, expressing hate for your president has *always* been something americans have done. There's a fine line somewhere there and some people are going to be on both sides of it, and it's pretty clear that @sickburnbro doesn't care either way - he just wants to remove leftists from their jobs in what goes even beyond tit-for-tat compensation for right-wingers being similarly targeted - he wants to win and will not stop at anything short of alinsky to do so.
> If you do but on condition, understand that other people outside of or within those conditions are going to respond in kind.
That's not what's happening here.
> I believe that turn is what you are seeing right now at present.
Nice try.
Are you a real doctor, btw?
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What exactly is manipulative about it? You either believe speech is an acceptable reason for termination or it isn't. If you do but on condition, understand that other people outside of or within those conditions are going to respond in kind.
>Mob rule is fickle, and they will turn on people like you.
I believe that turn is what you are seeing right now at present.
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex jeff, I asked a simple question. If you don't want people getting fired from their jobs for political statements, how do you plan on making sure that will happen?
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@sickburnbro @doctorsex Bullshit. You're a liar is what you are who is OK with abusing whatever power you have to target leftists and win
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@sickburnbro @doctorsex
That's too broad of a question. Depends on the person, and the job, and even at the end of the day the political statement. It's a lot harder to defend someone who just doesn't like trump than someone who actively says he's going to kill him. That part is pretty much going to fall into the hands of the secret service and you just gotta feel bad for the guy being a dumb white shit who said the wrong thing, whereas the former is someone that can be defended.
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex that's the problem then. It seems like you are saying "there is no solution" and throwing your hands up.
This is, essentially, a vote for the status quo. I'm not happy with the status quo we have.
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@DEERBLOOD @doctorsex I'm not begging for anything. If @sickburnbro wants to target poor white cashiers that's their prerogative.
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@jeffcliff @DEERBLOOD @doctorsex what is your limit for people that should face repercussion for calling for political acts of violence?
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Like what they've done to us for years?
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@doctorsex @jeffcliff @sickburnbro This whinning and begging for mercy is the best part tbh
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex I have a suggestion for a way to make people care about a rule, and you don't like it because it seems "not nice." I agree that it is not nice, but I'm not too interested in any other commentary unless you have a better plan.
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@sickburnbro @doctorsex Not really, it's saying that you're asking a question that has local conditions which are relevant.
> I'm not happy with the status quo we have.
Neither am I
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex there are hundreds of examples that I know of where things like this happened. I have no idea the true number.
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex I used to use the ok symbol a lot before that particular nonsense and then eventually stopped because I would get worried every time I did it that someone would freak out and get me fired.
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex @sickburnbro @yockeypuck jeff, stop disappointing yourself, end it all today, you can do it
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@dictatordave @doctorsex @sickburnbro @yockeypuck
I've got shit to do and will not be wasting time on this thread all day.
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@yockeypuck @jeffcliff @doctorsex @sickburnbro everyone that doesn't align with him politically, that's the number, and anyone that steps out of line for his faggot masters
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@dictatordave @doctorsex @sickburnbro @yockeypuck fuck you no
(you're also definitely projecting here)
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@yockeypuck @doctorsex @sickburnbro "probably" isn't good enough
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@jeffcliff @doctorsex @sickburnbro How many covid deaths are your liberal ethics worth to you? Six million?
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@sickburnbro @jeffcliff @doctorsex She was probably a vaxx denier anyway.
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@sickburnbro
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@sickburnbro
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@Jonaschuzzlewit @doctorsex @sickburnbro @jeffcliff The world will never be free of censorship
Your choice is censor them or be censored by them
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I hate to side with Cliff but censorship is the greatest evil. If We were allowed to speak we could recruit others to our cause
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@doctorsex
> How exactly does it go beyond
Where is the talk of this being proportional? Certainly not from @sickburnbro . Maybe your stance is more measured. But I have yet to hear anyone other than maybe you even suggest such a measured response.
> you yourself are acknowledging the similarity
Of course there's a similarity. Internet cancelling mobs aren't *exclusively* the province of the right. But you can stand up to both when they go too far.
>he just wants to remove leftists from their jobs
Why should I feel bad about this
That's up to you. Where have I suggested what you should or should not feel?
>Are you a real doctor, btw?
> Yes. I take my credentials very seriously. Do you think I would lie about that
:breadthink:
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>Where is the talk of this being proportional?
They've gone after people for years- retail workers, blue collar people, all the way up to White collar people- you can find people on the left ranging from "generic maddow fan shitlib" to "SRA antifascist with a rap sheet filled with violent and non-violent offenses" bragging about this sort of thing with the explicit intention of leaving their targets starving, homeless, etc. And there is a backlog of this going back nearly a decade now. "Proportionality" is acheived when we do it enough to them that the fuck off and cut it out.
>That's up to you. Where have I suggested what you should or should not feel?
It's suggested by your language you don't approve of it. You refer to the person here as "impoverished and rural"; it certainly comes across as though you want him to get some kind of pity or sympathy.
If you don't believe me when I say I'm a real doctor, why even ask, Jeff?
Bread up, Bro
Ares :sonnenrad:
Jeff "never puts away anything, especially oven mitts" Cliff, Bringer of Nightmares 🏴☠️🦝🐙 🇱🇧🧯 🇨🇦🐧
Dr. Sex, Ph.d, Esq.
M. Night Charlemayne
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yockeypuck
Titanbreaker-kun
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