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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jun-2024 22:28:31 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
- Chinese man ? #nobot
- teknomunk
@IAMAL_PHARIUS @teknomunk >double bonded oxygen
ketones nawmsayin?

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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 00:13:48 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @IAMAL_PHARIUS I'm sure someone has looked into cleaving hydrogen off hydrocarbons for fuel cell work. Seems stupid (because it is), but at least it's a liquid hydrogen source. Maybe
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 00:13:49 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
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  - teknomunk
  @BowsacNoodle @teknomunk dont be rama rama
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 00:13:49 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  - Chinese man ? #nobot
  - teknomunk
  @BowsacNoodle silly goose, it's diesel.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 00:24:30 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @IAMAL_PHARIUS @not_br549 @teknomunk it is a very bad idea and will waste energy in the process, but nobody cares about that as long as it's not burning heckin' carbonarinos
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 00:24:31 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
  in reply to
  - teknomunk
  - Jolly Rancher
  @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk kill me pete
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 01:38:54 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
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  - teknomunk
  - Jolly Rancher
  @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk methanol fits into the chain perfectly
  
  especially if youre putting a nuclear reactor, a desalination plant and a steel factory at the same place.
  
  people keep saying the end goal is hydrogen fuel cells, i dont get it. you still need to continuosly feed it hydrogen. literally the most corrosive and reactive element
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 01:39:58 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @IAMAL_PHARIUS @not_br549 @teknomunk Definitely the most corrosive, but most reactive too? They're just trying to mimic electron transport chain in biological cells aren't they?
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 01:46:17 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @teknomunk @not_br549 @IAMAL_PHARIUS z they run that CO2 through a catalyst and back into the reactor as CO2, or is that wishful thinking? I've never looked into that reaction.
  
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  teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 01:46:36 JST teknomunk
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  @IAMAL_PHARIUS @not_br549 @BowsacNoodle
  
  There is also the Fischer-Tropsch reaction that can use CO2 and H2 (use reverse water gas shift to get CO and H2).
  
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  Tyler (tyler@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:37:34 JST Tyler
  in reply to
  I friggin love trees they are excellent carbon conversion renewable bullshit and you can make houses out of them.
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:37:35 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  - Chinese man ? #nobot
  - teknomunk
  The laws of thermodynamics still apply. To reverse the process of making CO2, you must expend a lot of energy. More energy than you produced burning the carbon.
  The carbon we burn today was stored sunlight from photosynthesis in a forest or a swamp full of green slime algae. (or if you're a fan of 'abiotic' carbon, it was ??? energy left over from planet formation) ... but it's silly to think it makes sense to reverse the process and turn CO2 back into hydrocarbons on an industrial scale. If you have a nuke plant, do something useful with it like powering a steel mill. Sequestering carbon is a fool's errand.
  
  We already have ways to sequester carbon, they are called trees.
  
  Meanwhile, here is some science for you to trust:
  https://youchu.be/8jDqUcnBotk?list=PLGhmZX2NKiNldpyRUBBEzNoWL0Cso1jip&index=24&t=2334
  What are we going to do about all those carbon-wasting viruses?
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:42:09 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @IAMAL_PHARIUS I don't personally care about sequestering carbon. I'm simply talking about efficiency. I don't know anything about that reaction so I can't really speak to anything and am just spitballing. If you can reuse reagents, even in a situation where it requires a lot of energy, it should be explored. That's the type of stuff that can be bundled near a small nuke plant where there's tons of energy available to up total efficiency, especially if it can run off "waste" heat.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:03 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron What about combining two butanols to make octanol, or is that too thick? When e85 first was announced I thought people were joking because it's so wildly inefficient.
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:04 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
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  @Paultron @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk there are many ways to get there, its just that the start of the infarstructure you cannot escape methanol.
  
  highly likely there is a phase where all methanol and ethanol will exist at the same time.
  
  used cooking oil to biodiesel will be left alone
  
  some countires like the americas will coast on their ground reserves for the next few centuries simply because its cheaper
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:04 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  combine 2 ethanol molecules to make butanol, and it is even better. the longer the carbon chain, the more like an oil or wax it is.
  among the alcohols, butanol may be closest to a drop-in replacement for octane. no need to re-tune your engine, or worry about corrosion.
  
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  Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:05 JST Paultron-3030
  in reply to
  @IAMAL_PHARIUS @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk fuel methanol is just worse ethanol which is already terrible
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:05 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
  in reply to
  @Paultron @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk outside of fuel oil and kerosene, which has their specific purposes, methanol is right now ready to take over diesel and petrol despite being 2 times less energy dense.
  
  its much more stable and effortless to use as a portable energy source thats relatively independent of grid power.
  
  full battery cars are retarded due to weight.
  also every single time you draw power from that massive radiation magnet with wheels your balls get fried.
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  Paultron-3030 (paultron@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 02:46:05 JST Paultron-3030
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  @IAMAL_PHARIUS @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk methanol will not take over diesel. the energy density is miserable and it is highly hygroscopic. ethanol (Same downsides, better energy density) or better yet biodiesel would be superior and fit into existing infrastructure better
  
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  rs6 (1137@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:45:06 JST rs6
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  @Paultron @IAMAL_PHARIUS @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk Rudolf Diesel originally designed his invention to run on bio-fuels. Biofuels provide more lubricity and are overall cleaner. I agree that that energy density is the most important factor in generating power. Micro nuclear is absolutely within reach for residential and commercial electricity and biodiesel / electric drivetrains are within reach for transportation. Check out Edison Motors on you tube.
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:45:06 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  the name 'cetane' for that molecule is a nod to the whaling industry, the original source of those lovely biological oils. palmitic acid is the corresponding 16-carbon acid ... they are not merely from whales and palm nuts, these oils are widespread in nature.
  the biggest objection to using e.g. olive oil to power your car is that bio-oils contain other gunk that clogs pumps and plumbing, and encourages the growth of oil-loving bacteria and fungi. diesel injectors squirt the oil thru near-microscopic holes into the combustion chamber, can be fouled by small particles, and are hard to clean.
  (and of course, that is why used cooking oil is transesterified to make biodiesel, even though it would sort-of work without modification)
  
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  rs6 (1137@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:45:16 JST rs6
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  @not_br549 @teknomunk @BowsacNoodle @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron all true. The ever-increasing search for efficiency and emissions controls have resulted in modern high-pressure common-rail diesels being less friendly to certain bio-diesels. Some are still fine, and a B5-B10 mix is often actually an improvement over either D2 or JP8 for use in ground vehicles. But, the comparison is not head-to-head, as there is no major effort in developing specific BD engines, and instead the BD industry is trying to accommodate BD fuel to engines optimized for D2. BioDiesel Magazine is a great read if you have interest in the subject.
  
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  Chinese man ? #nobot (iamal_pharius@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:46:36 JST Chinese man ? #nobot
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  @BowsacNoodle @not_br549 @teknomunk @Paultron If youre already using nuclear powerplants to start the process, all you really care about is the cost maintaining that supply chain.
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:47:50 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  note @IAMAL_PHARIUS 's cetane molecule up there. it has sixteen carbons in it. works great in your old antique diesel Mercedes.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 03:47:50 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron I should refresh on practical organic chem. it's been decades. 🧓
  
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  Special Guest Star (s2208@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 04:19:46 JST Special Guest Star
  in reply to
  it’s gotta revvvv up and sound cool too
  
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  teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 04:19:48 JST teknomunk
  in reply to
  @1137@poa.st @not_br549 @BowsacNoodle @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron
  
  Energy density (both volumetric and mass) is the most important factor for mobile power. Cars, trucks, trains, planes, ships.
  
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  rs6 (1137@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 04:41:05 JST rs6
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  @teknomunk @not_br549 @BowsacNoodle @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron totally agree. That's why I don't see low-density sources like methane, LNG, propane, hydrogen, etc as viable alternatives. They only work moderately well for local transit that remains close to a refueling source (city buses, garbage trucks, etc).
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 05:48:23 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @1137 @teknomunk @not_br549 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron Hydrogen is potentially good if they can come up with storage. The energy density is absolutely garbage because storage is so terrible. I love what fuel cells do, but a 100L hydrogen tank can only store maybe 8kg of H2, which is like two gallons of gasoline in a 25 gallon explosive tank. But they're up to 60% conversion via fuel cell, and at 50% it stars to beat gasoline for usable energy extraction. Just hoping they find that magic storage solution.
  
  >1 kg of gasoline≈ 44.4 megajoules @ 40% efficiency = 17.76 MJ
  >1 kg of hydrogen≈ 36.7 MJ @ 50% efficiency = 18.36 MJ
  
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  Christmas Man (christmas_man@thebag.social)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 05:55:33 JST Christmas Man
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  Hydrogen embrittlement and pitting corrosion is one hell of an engineering hurdle to overcome.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:01:50 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Christmas_Man @teknomunk @not_br549 @1137 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron Indeed. I have more faith in the idea of exploiting reactions than I do raw storage. Aluminum nanoparticles are almost 100% reactive in field when exposed to water for reacting to generate H2O. Gallium and aluminum 3:1 mixture generates these passively in water and can be easily recovered. Gallium is wicked expensive for something that would be used as a medium, so this is not viable long-term but does show that we can setup alternatives to pure H2 storage provided water is available. Luckily water is a byproduct of fuel cell reactions, so one wouldn't need to carry much, in theory. sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220218100644.htm
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    Easy aluminum nanoparticles for rapid, efficient hydrogen generation from water
    
    For years, researchers have tried to find efficient and cost-effective ways to harness the extreme reactivity of aluminum to generate clean hydrogen fuel. A new study shows that an easily produced composite of gallium and aluminum creates aluminum nanoparticles that react rapidly with water at room temperature to yield large amounts of hydrogen.
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:02:39 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  Yeah, you might as well run your engine on hydrochloric acid.
  
  There is just no way to store hydrogen in a small container, with any efficiency. Lithium borohydride is a pretty compact source, but at the end of the journey you have lithium borate, and a whole lot of chemistry and energy is required to recreate the hydride. Some rare and exotic metals, like palladium, can store hydrogen -- which defeats the purpose of lightweight energy. Liquefy it, like fuel for the space shuttle ... it is ridiculously cold, and explosively boils if you look at it wrong. Or compress it, for a very short ride before another fill-up is needed. Or you can tow a zeppelin on a long umbilical leash.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:02:39 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @1137 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron @Christmas_Man >Or you can tow a zeppelin on a long umbilical leash.
  Patrician choice.
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:06:27 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  .. in which case, you are essentially running on aluminum. why not just run an electric motor on an aluminum primary cell?
  
  Like the lithium borohydride, it requires more energy and chemistry to re-make the fuel.
  the byproduct is aluminum oxide, send it back to the bauxite plant...
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:10:24 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @1137 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron @Christmas_Man I appreciate the critique of my idealism on the issue, honestly. I'm into the energy storage aspect not the viability as a replacement. It's easy as heck to make a ton of energy during the day, sometimes too much. It's hard to store it. Reversing energy dense reactions for reagents is one viable way to do that, and it scales better than a lot of options, at least on paper.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:11:21 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @1137 @ForbiddenDreamer @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron @Christmas_Man Yeah it makes the weird amalgam snakes right?
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:11:22 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  obliverates it!
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:11:23 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  'coz it's fun to watch the gallium destroy the aluminum.
  
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  The Forbidden Dreamer (forbiddendreamer@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:11:23 JST The Forbidden Dreamer
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @teknomunk @1137 @BowsacNoodle @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron @Christmas_Man Wtf do you thing mercury does to lumanum?
  
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  The Forbidden Dreamer (forbiddendreamer@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:11:24 JST The Forbidden Dreamer
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @Christmas_Man @teknomunk @not_br549 @1137 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron Just use mercury bro
  
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  rs6 (1137@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:13:18 JST rs6
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @teknomunk @not_br549 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron tbh, you aren't making much of a case for it. I think many consider it a panacea because it's emission is water. That's great, but it doesn't overcome the complexities. Worse, most governments are trying to minimize the ability of humans to travel at their own discretion, so advancements in passenger vehicles are inherently problematic. EVs are desirable because the electrical grids are either governmental or semi-governmental, and therefore undesirable communities' movements can be shut down. Public transport is the goal of these governments, with total reliance of the public on government-provided conveyance. A truly independent solution: a vehicle that can be conveniently fueled locally, serviced by average people, and has dynamic range, is anathema to the "progress" that these governments are seeking and funding. Development of such will be accosted by government and established businesses alike.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 06:18:15 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
  in reply to
  @1137 @teknomunk @not_br549 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron My use case is as energy storage "dry battery" for extra energy produced during peak solar or nuclear time. You are right that electric cars create a huge hazard for the grid and independence. In an ideal world, they'd serve as a buffer and distributed storage solution. We in blown world where people can openly talk about killing White people and forcing us to eat bugs without proper (their heads on pikes after due process) punishment for their insanity.
  
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  teknomunk (teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 22:28:54 JST teknomunk
  in reply to
  @not_br549 @1137@teknomunk @BowsacNoodle @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron @demonofustio
  
  I suspect you are going to need the technicals running on wood gas to get those heads on pikes, after they are convicted by truely impartial juries and judges because the current ones have to go as they are corrupt and cover for government criminals and they aren't going to straighten themselves out. Unfortunately...
  
  :talulah_tired:
  
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  demonofustio (demonofustio@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 22:28:55 JST demonofustio
  in reply to
  @BowsacNoodle @1137 @teknomunk @not_br549 @IAMAL_PHARIUS @Paultron PREACHHH!!
  
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  Jolly Rancher (not_br549@jollyville.net)'s status on Friday, 21-Jun-2024 22:28:55 JST Jolly Rancher
  in reply to
  heads on pikes first, and THEN hillbilly wood gas cars!
  
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