Gwen The Red Moss
Hrm.
I've avoided Nier: Automata because of the fanbase/fanart, but I just got curious and actually looked up a short video and... it kind of looks like what I wish Bayonetta 3 had been.
Anyone have any experience with it? How open is this? Hub based? JRPG styled? Level based with larger stages?
NaClKnight
@Gwendolyn I'm curious what about the fanbase or fanart put you off from playing the game?
NaClKnight
@Gwendolyn I think that makes a lot of sense. Bayonetta feels like she's more in on the joke or self-aware than 2B.
I'm of the opinion that horny art is fine on its own; the rationalizations and defenses are corny. If someone wants to draw/look at thicc art, that's chill. Just own it. It's fine.
I understand being put off by a game's community though. Not for horny art but plenty of other games for plenty of other reasons haha.
If you end up playing it, i hope your enjoy it on its own merits!
Gwen The Red Moss
@NaClKnight It probably sounds weird coming from someone who's a fan of Bayonetta, but fanservice-y shit just turns me off.
Knowing nothing about the game all I saw was a blindfolded girl in upskirt shot after upskirt shot.
To be clear, I wasn't seeking it out, so it was just whatever kind of crap crossed my timeline. Horny art and guys defending why her attire was necessary. Kinda put me off.
NaClKnight
@spinning_bird @Gwendolyn I get that! The short dress and the thigh slit make exposure pretty unavoidable. Like you said, the way they seem accidental feels disingenuous when that's a clear design/camera choice.
Would those shots be less annoying if they were portrayed as more intentional and less incidental?
pon
@Gwendolyn @NaClKnight 2Bs design is neat, EXCEPT for how the dress invites panty shots all the time. It's irritating.
I don't know what it is about those that annoys me so much. Perhaps because how they're always made to look incidental, but it's so apparent they're very deliberate.
Gwen The Red Moss
@NaClKnight Yeah. Bayonetta's "sexiness" exists within the game world. She owns it. It feels more like the character's choice than a Jessica Rabbit's "I'm just drawn this way".
Yeah. I agree. To each their own. It just served as a poor introduction to the character and story to me.
To contrast, my first exposure to Bayonetta was starting a bike with her middle finger and the Afterburner theme playing, and discussions about dodge offset. I was like... Oh! These fans love cheese and mechanics! I'm home!
I think I'll give it a shot.
NaClKnight
@Gwendolyn @spinning_bird I admittedly phrased the question awkwardly but these conversations are always interesting to me so I'm glad you answered as well
that kind of voyeuristic leering feels juvenile and immature now that I'm an adult who has navigated sex and relationships
The feeling of the player "getting away with something" is gross and feels very juvenile, very "players are men, men are horny, women aren't, sex is a thing women have to defend from horny guys"
Gwen The Red Moss
Not sure if that was just for them, or if I was being queried as well, but I'll answer. Personally, I don't think that distinction would matter. I'd still be annoyed. To me, it's about intent and who wants me to see it.
In those shots, it's like a third party (the dev) is pointing up her skirt, elbowing you and goin' 😏
Whether it was more obvious or not, I'd still find it annoying.
I think the problem is the 4th wall. Sexuality is fine, but it should make sense in the absence of the 4th wall.
pon
@NaClKnight @Gwendolyn I think Gwendolyn said it very well, the fourth wall break combined with the 😏 face you can see on the devs face.
It would be annoying as hell having to wear something like that and be careful about indecent exposure all the time, so maybe trying to identify with the character, some of that annoyance transfers over. In a way, if 2B only wore underwear it would be less annoying 😂
NaClKnight
@Gwendolyn @spinning_bird I appreciate both of you chatting about this with me. This is always interesting to me. The dissonance, aka fan disservice, bears investigating. I'm unlikely to play the game myself but nuanced discussion around it like this is awesome.
@Gwendolyn i hope i didn't highjack your otherwise innocuous post haha.
Gwen The Red Moss
@spinning_bird @NaClKnight I'm glad you brought up the bit about identifying with the character.
I've been questioning myself about why I feel this way and was trying to process why despite being into gals, I wasn't a fan of fanservice. Like, sure I like what I see, but not like this, and I think you nailed it. I can't help but put myself in her place and i guess there's like a feeling of second hand violation.
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