@teto@grips@latein@RaHoWaJoe True, but the institutional leadership is deeply liberal and corrupt. I'll believe the Catholic Church is healing when they fire James Martin for being gay pinko.
@latein@grips@teto@RaHoWaJoe True, but the Catholic Church having taught that there is no salvation outside the church was an error that they've backed off of since the Protestant Reformation. These days they're going too far in the liberalizing direction to the point where some priests are effectively arguing the Catholic Church has no need to exist at all.
@RaHoWaJoe@teto@grips@latein Depends on the belief. What constitutes "Catholicism" is dictated by the Catechism. Catholic leadership being plagued with liberals and faggots doesn't make you any less Catholic. At least until the infiltrators are able to fundamentally alter what the Catholic Church is at a doctrinal level, like they've done with liberal protestantism.
@Godcast@grips@teto@RaHoWaJoe But can't you already make this claim due to Vatican 1 teaching that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church, while Vatican 2 teaches the opposite?
@teto@grips@latein I'm not a catholic because I don't believe the particulars of catholic doctrine which I would be obligated to believe if I were a catholic.
@Godcast@teto@grips@latein Serious question though. I still consider myself Catholic despite my grievances with the church. Does one have to stop considering himself Catholic even though one's own beliefs have not changed, but rather those of the leadership?
@Godcast@grips@latein give Jesus a chance and just give the catholic message a try instead. We dont have bible autism or shame others for not taking it literal. There are many mysteries that we simply don't understand. We just have to try to and love Christ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brZHDOGwbnM
@latein@Godcast@grips I was a pagan for 5+ years and my priests accepted my confession appointment without question. Without even checking if im registered with the german catholic church. Your pastors dont sound very christian to me
@latein@grips@Godcast lmao a catholic priest here would just say theyd pray for your return just like any real believer would. "Pastors" are performers with zero accountability.
@latein@Godcast >Obviously not my previous church (I'm persona non grata) did you have a falling-out in person? >but Catholic and Orthodox ones have many issues too I'd be the first to admit that. as one guy put it, "come on in, the water's terrible!" >as my (on a what-if basis) theology is still Baptist don't worry, you guys have like fifty thousand churches :smug3:
@grips@Godcast >did you have a falling-out in person? No, I called my pastor to let him know I stopped believing in the Bible and he called me an apostate and a deceiver who had merely pretended to believe. I'm not welcome back. >don't worry, you guys have like fifty thousand churches I'm not going to go for the world record of church ejections.
@grips@Godcast I don't know how I could honestly take the Genesis account of the creation and the flood as mere allegory, or that God's words are scattered among a contradictory web of manuscripts ("not one jot or tittle", "man shall live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God"). And Matthew 16:28 I can't leave as "significant".
Another question would be 'Which church?' Obviously not my previous church (I'm persona non grata) but Catholic and Orthodox ones have many issues too, as my (on a what-if basis) theology is still Baptist. Thanks for the reminder that other beliefs might be valid, though.
@grips For context, my convictions were that the earth is 6000 years old, with Genesis 1 describing the first 6 days. Also that the KJV is God's written and pure Word in it's entirety. And that not believing in either of the above is apostasy and unbelief.
The first two are evidence that either evolution is true, or that God went out of his way to make it look like evolution were true.
The latter two are contradictions, Matthew 16:28 a failed prophecy spoken by Jesus, and Matthew 27:9 an attribution error (Matthew quoted Zechariah but attributed the quote to Jeremiah, or an error got inserted in transmission)
Since I still believe that if you hold to the Bible you would need to reject these evidences, I reject the Bible.
@latein not to be rude but it sounds like poor excuses on the surface, I'm not too familiar with the first two concepts but after cursory searches I feel like by rejecting evolution and pursuing natural philosophy at the same time you painted yourself into a corner
with regards to the verses, I'm not sure how Mt 27:9 even comes into the picture here
@Godcast@teto@grips@latein@RaHoWaJoe it's the same dynamic as politics. the "Liberal" ones punish their enemies and reward their friends, the "Conservative" ones don't reward their friends, and don't punish their enemies.
@Godcast@grips@latein@RaHoWaJoe the pope decides that and he's a liberal right now. The one before that was conservative. I dont see why I should be hugely upset at a human problem that is very temporary