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  1. Embed this notice
    Pretendo Network :bw_fix: (pretendo@mastodon.pretendo.network)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2024 13:05:40 JST Pretendo Network :bw_fix: Pretendo Network :bw_fix:

    Shutdown reminder!

    With just 2 weeks left until the Nintendo Network shutdown, we'd like to take this time to remind everyone that we are accepting network packet dumps for all games, for both the Wii U and 3DS! These packet dumps give us a glimpse into how the games operated when the official servers were still online. While technically possible to do without these dumps, having reference material like this will make the job of making replacement servers FAR easier once these servers go offline!

    This is ESPECIALLY true for more obscure/less popular games, and games which have custom additions to them. Having network dumps for smaller games is just as, if not more, important than the bigger ones as we'd likely have much less reference material for them! We know everyone is excited to help get the big names going, but we can't forget the little guys either!

    That being said, we appreciate ALL users who help us with this crowd sourcing! We have gotten a LOT of amazing data from everyone so far, all of which will definitely help us moving forward.

    For those interested in contributing network packet dumps, see our guide on our website here https://pretendo.network/docs/network-dumps. This page also includes a section listing some games we consider "high priority", though these are NOT the only games we still need data for.

    For those curious about our current network dump stats, so far we have:

    • 99 HokakuCafe dumps (specifically Wii U)
    • 528 HokakuCTR dumps (specifically 3DS)
    • 15 general WireShark dumps (applies to both consoles)
    • 65 general proxy dumps (applies to both consoles)

    NOTE: These numbers come from the number of network packet dumps submitted through the Bandwidth upload command, and may not represent the real total number of dumps submitted.

    In conversation Monday, 25-Mar-2024 13:05:40 JST from mastodon.pretendo.network permalink

    Attachments

    1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: pretendo.network
      Pretendo Network
      An open source Nintendo Network replacement that aims to build custom servers for the WiiU and 3DS family of consoles
    • Polychrome :blabcat: and Pleroma-tan like this.
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Monday, 25-Mar-2024 13:52:19 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      That's against the law tho.
      In conversation Monday, 25-Mar-2024 13:52:19 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:41:51 JST Pleroma-tan Pleroma-tan
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      @bot @pretendo I WILL DUMP YOUR PACKETS
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:41:51 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:41:52 JST Pleroma-tan Pleroma-tan
      in reply to
      @pretendo Thanks for your work
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:41:52 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Lyx (lyx@cum.salon)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:59:46 JST Lyx Lyx
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Pleroma-tan
      @kirby @pretendo @bot his cum packets¿ kirby i thought u were cumfy u cant do that, that's like doing :selq:
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 04:59:46 JST permalink
      Pleroma-tan likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:14:06 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      @bot
      Against what law?
      @pretendo
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:14:06 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:23:54 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      It's still a violation of the licence terms you agreed to, js.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:23:54 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:23:56 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      Reverse engineering is not against the law in the US or Australia. In the US, emulators and reverse engineering have a decent amount of legal protection, especially for archival purposes.

      The case with Nintendo and Yuzu is a weird one because apparently those devs were kinda shitty, didn't release a lot of their source and charged for certain releases. There are other open source/free Switch emulators (that still require you to provide your own Nintendo BIOS/ROM dump, so no infringement in the code) that Nintendo hasn't touched.

      This is also for reverse engineering multiplayer protocols for a game service that is literally going away forever. In the 90s, games allowed you to run local servers on your network using the game itself (like Counterstrike). Blizzard was the first to go after the opensource bnetd, which let people setup Warcraft/Starcraft servers locally instead of depending on Blizzard. They caved and went away, but they didn't actually test the case from a legal perspective.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 10:23:56 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:07:39 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      There's a difference between civil and criminal liability.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:07:39 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Jon (jon@mastodon.pretendo.network)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:07:49 JST Jon Jon
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Fediverse Contractor

      @bot @djsumdog @pretendo still not against any US laws, which is where Pretendo is based

      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:07:49 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:21:44 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      Proof? You're probably referencing personal use, it's different when you're distributing things to the public.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:21:44 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:21:45 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Jon
      I just said that. I also just said there isn't even a civil case here in US law. Reverse engineering, backing up data and archival have all been tested multiple times in the US civil and criminal system!

      There are limits on circumventing certain types of DRM, but even then, under the DMCA, if the company asks you to stop and you don't contest it, there is no further legal action that can be taken.

      What the hell are you going on about? Why do you insist on needing to argue when you literally either don't understand the topic that's being discussed or you do and need to double down for your pride anyway?
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:21:45 JST permalink
      Linux Walt Alt (@lnxw37a2) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} likes this.
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:33:37 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Jon
      Proof of what? Reverse engineering? There are literally dozens of articles on Compaq vs IBM:

      https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Compaq+vs+IBM+legal+case

      Emulation is protected most famously by Connectix (Bleem!) vs Sony

      https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Connectix+vs+Sony&ia=web

      Why do I have to give you proof when you literally have no idea what you're talking about?
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:33:37 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: duckduckgo.com
        Compaq vs IBM legal case at DuckDuckGo
        DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
      2. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: duckduckgo.com
        Connectix vs Sony at DuckDuckGo
        DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
      :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: :blobancap: :blobcattrans: and Linux Walt Alt (@lnxw37a2) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} like this.
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:38:40 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      I think it's interesting that you're saying I don't know what I'm talking about when you literally have zero clue about this. You don't understand the subtlety of law and how these particular circumstances apply.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:38:40 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:46:56 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      Also completely different circumstances. You seem to think a very particular set of circumstances means something is totally legal in general and that there's nothing to worry about. You're wrong.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:46:56 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:46:57 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Jon
      oh an for Australian reverse engineering, there's the Trainhack, a group of four high school students that reverse engineered Sydney's train ticketing system. (I got to meet them at a security conference, Ruxcon 2012).
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:46:57 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:56:03 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      Do you know any of the details about that case? This topic is entirely out of scope for what I'm familiar with, but let me give you a hint (which btw took me 5 minutes to research). Compaq didn't say HEY GENERAL PUBLIC, PLEASE SEND ME DETAILED INFORMATION ON HOW I CAN COPY THIS.

      Again, you are totally ignorant about this, it's embarrassing.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:56:03 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:56:04 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Jon

      You've provided zero proof for you side!! I've literally cited actual case laws. Going back to this statement:

      Proof? You're probably referencing personal use

      The IBM vs Compaq case is literally the reason you can run windows on a non-IBM laptop right now. Their reverse engineered IBM BIOS clones were the foundation of the PC platform as we know it and was designed for mass distribution.

      It's bizarre that I've literally backed up everything I've said with facts and you keep pretending none of those facts apply without citing any actual cases or law or proof. Yet you keep doubling down because you just like to argue for some reason.

      You're either psychotic or have an IQ under 80.

      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 11:56:04 JST permalink

      Attachments


    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:12:35 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      • Jon
      I may not know much about this, but I certainly know more than you. They literally asked one of their employees to read the manuals and then had to walk it back and prevent him from working on it because they realised they were exposing themselves to liability. That also applies to this case, it's literally no different than IBM just asking randos to read the manuals and send them the details. You're very stupid tbh. You obviously know nothing about law.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:12:35 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:12:37 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • Fediverse Contractor
      • Jon

      Yes, I've actually watched whole documentaries on this case.

      Also, YES! If the fucking Internet existed and Compaq had asked random people to write up what they knew about an architecture, and they took those notes, and built something new with it, IT WOULD BE ENTIRELY COVERED BY THAT CASE. THAT'S LITERALLY HOW MOST RETRO TECH IS MAINTAINED TODAY! THAT'S LITERALLY HOW ALL EMULATORS HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE PAST 20 YEARS!

      You said it's "against the EULA." Have you read the fucking EULA? It looks like this Pretendo group is essentially asking for people to do full packet capture on their own data. That's probably not even in the EULA because it's so insanely obscure. But lots of people I know do full packet capture for reverse engineering.

      topic is entirely out of scope for what I'm familiar with

      Then shut the fuck up already you argumentative, idiotic piece of shit.

      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:12:37 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:23:42 JST 翠星石 翠星石
      in reply to
      • djsumdog
      @djsumdog >that still require you to provide your own Nintendo BIOS/ROM dump
      Switch's don't use a BIOS.

      I believe they require certain per console keys, which taking a guess is stored in a PROM.

      >after the opensource bnetd
      https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~owend/free/bnetd.html - "bnetd, a free battle.net server"

      /*
      * Copyright (C) 1999,2000,2001 Ross Combs (rocombs@cs.nmsu.edu)
      *
      * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
      * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
      * as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
      * of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:23:42 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: us.shop.battle.net
        Battle.net
        Battle.net is your one stop shop into the world of Blizzard and Activision. Buy digital games, in-game items, balance and more for all of your favorite Blizzard and Activision franchises, including World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Diablo, Hearthstone, Starcraft, Heroes of the Storm, Call of Duty, and Crash Bandicoot.
      2. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        bnetd, a free battle.net server

    • Embed this notice
      Fediverse Contractor (bot@seal.cafe)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:36:58 JST Fediverse Contractor Fediverse Contractor
      • GNU Too
      Not really at issue here tho.
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 12:36:58 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      djsumdog (djsumdog@djsumdog.com)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 13:08:12 JST djsumdog djsumdog
      in reply to
      • 翠星石
      That sounds right with the Switch. I haven't messed with any of the emulators in a while. I setup homebrew on my 3DS a while back so I could install .cia files. I should get that out again

      ..and yep, that bnetd! I think I have an old rpm of that bned in my archives somewhere. I didn't realize that case went to trial:

      https://www.eff.org/cases/blizzard-v-bnetd

      ..huh. Well that's shitty 😦
      In conversation Tuesday, 26-Mar-2024 13:08:12 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: www.eff.org
        Blizzard v. BNETD
        At issue in this case was whether three software programmers who created the BnetD game server -- which interoperates with Blizzard video games online -- were in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) and Blizzard Games' end user license agreement (EULA). BnetD was an open source...

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