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1. Embed this notice
   13 barn owls in a trenchcoat (hauntedowlbear@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:25 JST 13 barn owls in a trenchcoat

   in reply to

   • Lien Rag
   • myrmepropagandist

   @lienrag @futurebird yeah, it's unfortunate that this "corrective" urge is wielded against - conspicuously - LGBT+ youth in many places.

   It was illegal to be gay when and where I was born. Then I finished my schooling in a time and place where it was illegal to talk about LGBT issues and those of us who were out were ostracised at best.

   I was largely immune to bullying (literally didn't notice, then later too scary to mess with), but I'm now raising a child who wants nothing to do with gender in a third country, where this kind of shit happens:

   https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/education/harcelement-a-l-ecole/suicide-de-lucas-dans-les-colleges-la-difficile-prise-en-compte-du-harcelement-scolaire-envers-les-eleves-lgbt_5613326.html

   (Should auto translate fine.)

   And it is the normalisation of reactionary tendencies that produces this, and religion can be a powerful avenue for that kind of hate.

   But I've worked with LGBT charities in various places, mostly Europe, and sadly the US does not have a monopoly on this kind of bullying, although they have an especially serious case of culture war against what's been declared to be "degeneracy".

   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:27 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird

     More seriously, there probably is a component of American puritanism (the community is supposed to control the behavior of its members) in this.

   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:29 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird

     (but yes, you americans are definitely barbarians)

   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:30 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird

     Yes and no.
     Serious confrontations between kids who didn't like each other also were solved this way.

   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:31 JST myrmepropagandist

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag

     @lienrag

     What you are describing is a game between equals not bullying.

     Bullying occurs when some members of a community decide that someone is not an equal member of the community and so they aren't due the respect that everyone else may have.

     Sometimes adults condone this, and participate.

     Sometimes on some notion of "making them more normal" or "teaching them to not be a target"

   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:33 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird

     When I was a kid, we hadn't this wrestling tradition, but still courtyard tussles had rules (no hitting someone on the ground, no ganging up on one child, not hitting someone way smaller) and if they were broken the adults quickly intervened, while they more of less left us alone if the rules were respected and we didn't do it in front of the adults.

     I wonder how much of the aggravated bullying comes from the total interdiction of physical violence...

   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:34 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     • myrmepropagandist

     @futurebird

     Social confrontation, even physical one, is part of growing up.
     But there are rules about that, and adults are supposed to see that they are enforced.
     In many countries, wrestling between children is a way for them to settle arguments and construct hierarchies, and it's very healthy (as hitting the other is forbidden, and the kid who would hit another in a wrestling match would be shunned even by his friends).

   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:35 JST myrmepropagandist

     in reply to

     I feel like saying it since my parents seemed to think bullying was a normal part of growing up.

     But having been a teacher for a long time I assure you this need not be the case.

     Adults can set good examples, respond to bullying with care, set expectations ... if a schools has enough staff, and if they are unified in purpose to make all students feel welcome, all students can feel safe. Making all students feel included and wanted is harder, but you can change this too.

     And you should.

   • Embed this notice
     myrmepropagandist (futurebird@sauropods.win)'s status on Sunday, 25-Feb-2024 22:23:36 JST myrmepropagandist

     Bullying isn't a "normal part of growing up" if a child is being bullied physically that is a failure of the school to protect them and a failure to create a safe learning environment.

     Psychological bullying is *equally* as serious but can be harder to identify. But if a child/teen comes home from school upset repeatedly. If they say they don't want to go to school. If they alter their behavior to avoid persecution this is also a failure.

     This feels obvious and basic but I'm saying it anyway.