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   CJ Bellwether (siege@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 05:30:57 JST CJ Bellwether

   so looking at US first glance trans statistics, theres 375% more transmasc nonbinary people than transfem nonbinary.

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     CJ Bellwether (siege@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 06:30:04 JST CJ Bellwether

     in reply to

     • Steven Saus [he/him]

     @StevenSaus theres a lot of possible interactions that could be considered.

     like the three sets were
     men 25%,
     women 35%,
     nonbinary people 38%,

     but that 38% breaks down to 30% transmasc(afab) and 8% transfem(amab).

     So if we're looking at transfem and transmasc wider grouping including women and men, its 43% transfeminine, 55% transmasculine and 2% crossdressers which im assuming are amab, making up the total. So 45% amab, 55% afab.

     from under 18 gender clinic data in the UK the pattern seems to be that transmasc people are more likely to come out younger than transfem, though that starts to balance out by the time you hit 18, iirc 16 is the turning point where more transfem patients are being referred. Those figures seem to correlate to an idea that earlier afab puberty and societal focus on their bodies causing more distress leading to awareness.

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     Steven Saus [he/him] (stevensaus@faithcollapsing.com)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 06:30:05 JST Steven Saus [he/him]

     in reply to

     @siege Interesting! Is there anything speculating as to the reason? My first thought is that's due to the patriarchy and the way it punishes female presenting folx, but I'm very interested in what they say.

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     CJ Bellwether (siege@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 06:58:04 JST CJ Bellwether

     in reply to

     • Steven Saus [he/him]

     @StevenSaus but the early findings is only looking at ages 18+, while the full study will include data on 16 and 17 years old where id assume the gaps will probably widen with an increase in nonbinary people and increase in transmasc to transfem. Still, the youngest bracket of ages 18-24 was the largest group at 43% of all respondants.

     i think the strong societal force of transmisogyny towards transgression of gender boundaries into femininity by any amab body is potentially a significant factor to consider.
     A nonbinary transfeminine person who's gender expression is feminine is going to be considered to have transgressed, and to try and simplify things here, lets say they're taking on significant risk/danger in their daily life.

     Which i think may have a squeezing effect on the nonbinary transfeminine group statistically, either pressuring people to not take the transgressive step, or to move into identifying as a trans woman since the transgressive boundary is already passed and there is no greater societal stigma to be gained from doing so. But thats conjecture and anecdotal.

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     Sleepy time tea bear (sleepytimeteabear@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 07:38:00 JST Sleepy time tea bear

     in reply to

     • Steven Saus [he/him]

     @siege @StevenSaus I think you’re totally on the nose siege

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     CJ Bellwether (siege@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 07:47:16 JST CJ Bellwether

     in reply to

     • Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     @amberage i know its a wild disparity to consider statistically,

     25% trans men
     35% trans women
     38% trans nonbinary

     but that 38% broke down along:
     30% transmasc nonbinary
     8% transfem nonbinary

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     Mx Amber Alex (she/it) (amberage@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 07:47:17 JST Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     in reply to

     @siege *stares at my 99% nonbinary transfem mutuals* they should recount

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     CJ Bellwether (siege@octodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 08:21:25 JST CJ Bellwether

     in reply to

     • Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     @amberage yeah, looking to the 2015 survey's full report for some indication:

     "Respondents were also asked to choose only one term that best described their current gender identity out of six possible terms (woman, man, trans woman (MTF), trans man (FTM), non-binary/genderqueer, or crossdresser) to determine the gender identity categories used for primary analysis"

     so yeah i guess its significant that the division may be happening that a lot of nonbinary transfem people consider trans woman or woman more important a term to best describe themselves.

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     Mx Amber Alex (she/it) (amberage@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 15-Feb-2024 08:21:26 JST Mx Amber Alex (she/it)

     in reply to

     @siege if I had to guess, I'd assume the clumsy phrasing would lead more nonbinary trans women to select "woman" over "nonbinary" out of fear of having their womanhood denied if they said "nonbinary"? But that's purely conjecture.