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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:30:40 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
@Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male Other way around. Large country starts hoarding their currency. Pick your reason. Imagine China starts hoarding gold-backed small nation notes. They can get them through a number of ways, legally. Because money is both a store of value and a convenience in a situation like this, they'll have the capacity to do this. It is an economic vulnerability at some point, is it not?

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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:36:40 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  China is a government, so they can do whatever they want, legal or not.
  Yes, holding foreign currency is always a geopolitical vulnerability because you don't control it, as sanctions prove. But the primary effects would be the new country currency would go up like crazy against the other fiat currencies, what would make their purchasing power skyrocket in comparison. For China, it would be a boom too:
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:36:40 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male But why would it go up? Someone hoarding the currency doesn't change its intrinsic value. That doesn't follow logically with how intrinsic value should affect currency, does it?
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:38:38 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  All their costs would be in Yuan but their wealth would go up along with the gold currency as a reserve and they would benefit from being paid in this currency too. Very similar to how the US vs the Yuan was in the 70s.
  The small country would be new singapore/new switzerland.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:41:06 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male Yes. But wouldn't 'Goldtopia' suffer a liquidity crisis with all of its money held as a value store by China? Nobody can buy bread when there's not enough money to go around because it's limited to physical assets. Do you see what I'm saying? George Soros could hypothetically buy out the economy of 'goldtopia' using his combined purchasing power and acquisition of assets through other markets and arbitrage. The vulnerability is real.
  
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  shortstories@merovingian.club's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:43:09 JST shortstories
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  @Zeb @BowsacNoodle @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  Because it is a race to the bottom
  That is why getting lots of things like concrete, metals, food, water, chemicals, in exchange for high inflation is the way to win
  For example
  Selling your oil to foreigners in exchange for money is a way to lose
  Buying oil from foreigners with useless hyper inflated money is a way to win
  That is why not drilling for oil but purchasing oil is a good strategy
  Hoard your oil underground until collapse
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:43:10 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  You're right. It's not the gold currency that's going up, it's the fiat currency that's going down! It would be a race to the bottom among the fiat bullshit.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:44:47 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @shortstories @Zeb @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male My larger point is your economy doesn't grow fast enough when its velocity of money is constrained by liquidity, particularly when said liquidity can be controlled by hostile larger parties. Sometimes there's pragmatic value for seemingly 💩 systems.
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:49:47 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  In theory, maybe, assuming prices would never go down, which they would, as they had in US for decades in the 17-1800s. But I'll tell you what has happened historically. Never has one country or even an entire continent has been able to hoard all the gold in the world. And all nations have also used silver and copper alongside gold as their daily trading currency, that are much more abundant. Prices would be much lower than today too.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:51:14 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male But how would such a thing happen today when the potentiality of external influence coming in to horde your currency for its stability exists? This still doesn't address the ledger issue: what to do with lost/damages notes? Do we assume this never happens, or do we force the currency to only be digital to prevent it? It could still be lost digitally, as we've seen.
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 06:59:03 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  I worked for a central bank a few years back and if you lose your note, it's gone. Damaged notes are simply replaced: you can go to your bank today with a damaged note, they will catalogue it and give you new bills.
  The printing and distribution of new notes and coins are done based on forecast and planning, where the total new amount added is essentially mandated by the government.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:00:18 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male Doesn't a hard asset backed currency become disjointed like this, or is the theory to have enough in reserve to become functionally "to big to fail" with failure being a run in hard asset exchange.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:01:43 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male Why wouldn't they get direct access? What would stop China from offering consumers 50% discount if paid in Goldtopia bills?
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:01:44 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  It's ok, if a country wants to hoard your currency, it's fine. First, they would not get access to your currency directly (swap lines) but to your bonds. Second, it would appreciate your gold currency every time they buy, making each purchase more expensive than the previous one. It would be politically suicidal too to put all your reserves in an external currency, as they can always simply sanction you or cancel your transactions.
  
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  givenup (givenup@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:04:54 JST givenup
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  @BowsacNoodle @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male gave my mom a carton of eggs for free, she said she's gonna boil them all, i dunno why.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:08:33 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male I'm not talking about swaps though. I mean actual consumer use bills.
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 07:08:34 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  Nothing. It would be a great deal for consumers, specially from goldtopia that is getting everything half-off!
  It requires a high-level of trust to give foreign countries directly access to your central bank. Read up on Swap Lines, the system already exists today.
  
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  shortstories@merovingian.club's status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 08:13:45 JST shortstories
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  @Zeb @BowsacNoodle @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  "the biggest drawback of all is, naturally, war! Since you can't simply print money, you gotta legit sell your bonds or tax your citizens heavily to fund your wars."
  That is good because then people will be less likely to want to go to a war unless it is perceived as necessary for them to survive
  
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  Zeb Tepes (zeb@merovingian.club)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 08:13:46 JST Zeb Tepes
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  @BowsacNoodle @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male
  To all your points, goldtopia has several drawbacks: it curtails government spending, it's very harsh on financial bubbles and it's not forgiving to debtors and failing businesses.
  Also, you cannot have a welfare state while on the gold standard.
  But the biggest drawback of all is, naturally, war! Since you can't simply print money, you gotta legit sell your bonds or tax your citizens heavily to fund your wars.
  
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  BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 06-Feb-2024 11:30:50 JST BowserNoodle ☦️
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  @Zeb @shortstories @Tfmonkey @VeganMGTOW @white_male You seem like a good person to ask this; what of a two-currency system? I was thinking about something with hard currency and fiat, with fiat having limited use and expiration dates preventing excessive inflation. Blockchain again where the government snips a fraction of a penny every time it moves hands for the fiat (it goes into a ledger to use for new fiat in the future) and potentially a hard expiration date for individual runs of minted fiat. Sounds like a neat experiment. Of course the issue of preference comes in, but I think market pricing would accommodate this and certain goods would work out either way (petty cash type expenses).
  
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