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   Richard Stallman (rms@mastodon.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 03-Feb-2024 17:30:25 JST Richard Stallman

   [1/3] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/florida-social-media-teenager-ban-bill

   Florida is considering a law that would ban people under 16 years old from making accounts on some sorts of platforms, if they have addictive design features. The law says this applies if a social media platform "utilizes addictive, harmful, or deceptive design features, or any other feature that is designed to cause an account holder to have an excessive or compulsive need to use or engage with …

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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 03-Feb-2024 23:57:40 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to
     @rms This will bring them to the Fediverse, instead of abusive proprietary platforms. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:07:05 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     @coolboymew @mangeurdenuage @rms there are working systems for verifying age without revealing identity but there are a variety of reasons that they won't ever be used, including that both social media companies and the government want to track you all the time.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:07:06 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • mdn
     @mangeurdenuage @rms nah IRL ID solutions are shit and are a privacy nightmare
     
     The real solution would have the social media websites use their freaking data collecting thing for good for once and ban users that seems underaged. Otherwise, also ban smartphone and tablet ownership for kids. That might not do much at home, but it sure would solve a lot of things for school
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:07:07 JST mdn

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     @coolboymew @rms Yeah, the issue after word would be that like rms pointed out is that they'll probably use a form of irl id to enforce that which isn't a solution.
     The only long term positive solution would first to be to forbid phone usage at school, no phones are permitted inside the schools and jammers are put in place.
     
     Then you need to have a pedagogic project so that parents have some knowledge on how to manage all of this.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:07:08 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • mdn
     @mangeurdenuage @rms that's one way to solve the issue
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:07:10 JST mdn

     in reply to
     @rms wtf florida is based now ?
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:22:01 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     @coolboymew @mangeurdenuage @rms It does require an identity verification system, but you build a token generation system where anonymous tokens assert age. you are issued the token and you submit it to the site. the site verifies the cryptographic signature and the token is anonymously submitted back to the service for revocation since it's been used. The site doesn't know who you are and the service doesn't know who you submitted the token to.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:22:02 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @Moon @mangeurdenuage @rms The thing is that, sit down for a moment and think about it. It's impossible ti verify age via facial recognition and ID and co without revealing identity. They'd need to erase the data immediately after the verification and they probably couldn't for legal reason and the gov could always swoop in and go *wink wink*
     
     I cannot think of a single system that could work
     
     If the parents really don't wanna parent, they need measures to not screw up the Internet like this while making sure it's difficult for kids to access these websites. Involving schools for one could probably be one. As far as I'm aware, they don't even police smartphones anymore, they're not allowed to take them away anymore??? What?
     
     Here's the thing, allow them to take them away, permanently, because they're not legal for kids. You'll see those damn things disappearing real quick from schools and from the streets
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:23:45 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • mdn
     • sj_zero
     @sj_zero @rms @mangeurdenuage they're real good at smartphones, but that's like being real good at playing with that rolling toy phones with eyes (what the hell was that toy even) in my book. It's a toy OS and that's about it
     
     Bring back the family computer
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:23:46 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • mdn
     • sj_zero
     @sj_zero @rms @mangeurdenuage man, just yesterday I saw elementary school kids looking at each others smartphones while coming back from school. Holy shit. They probably also had newer phones than I do
     
     I've said this elsewhere but Android and iOS are a toy OS that's immensely crap. Apps are the devil made for the lowest common denominator and usually designed to box you into an environment so they can steal as much data as possible and social media is tailored to be addictive, possibly very dangerous to a developing mind. You more or less cannot do any serious computing on a phone
     
     It was thought that the subsequent generations would be able to interact with technology more and more, and now kids don't even understand folder structure
     https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
     
     Hell, the new gen interact with technology so much, yet they're so inept because of the toy computers that hold their hands all the way that they've beaten our grandparents generation in being caught by scams
     https://www.vox.com/technology/23882304/gen-z-vs-boomers-scams-hacks
     
     We're far from the 2000s Internet utopia we used to have, now the corpos and big data mostly own it and they don't care about it
     
     Hell, talking about the 2000 utopia. Back then as a kid I used to browse countless pokémon fan websites in French. In freaking French, thousands of these existed, what should be a smallish language only spoken in a handful of countries, yet there were thousands of them made by kids and young adult. Nowadays the website WYSIWYG tools haven't been updated in 12-15 years and Seamonkey Composer is utterly broken to the level where i can't even ctrl + F on Linux in it. How the hell am I supposed to make a website without being a programmer nowadays? Even something simple
     
     The current status quo is shit. Make the Internet great, like the 2000s used to be
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     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:23:46 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     My next book that I'm working on is basically a course on how to use the freebasic programming language, but the scaffolding of the book is going to be about the history of personal computing and all of the little things that you need to know about how computers actually work.
     
     It is exactly as you say, a lot of kids are growing up constantly being praised for how good they are with computers, but in reality they're completely incompetent at computers and they're just good at Facebook or YouTubes app.
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     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:23:48 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     Over generations, I think people will have to figure out how to deal with the Internet and smart devices. I personally think the way every kid has a smartphone is the wrong way and I don't think kids should have such dangerous devices.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:31:13 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @Moon @rms @coolboymew @mangeurdenuage Yeah, in theory you could but we all know that no government won't make a system where tracking would either be in place or possible via making it purposefully weak/breached.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:32:20 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @Moon @mangeurdenuage @rms Well, I suppose you are more informed about these things than we are
     
     But I feel like they'll never ever do this without secret tracking
     
     I feel like banning the stuff for kids is a better solution as it doesn't mess with the Internet, it doesn't mess with the adults on it and it potentially solves a lot more issues in one go. What's the point of giving them the smartphone if we're banning them from most sites they'll be using a smartphone for? Navigating the web on non-apps is terrible. Also there's the problem of people potentially giving said tokens to other people
     
     If smartphones and tablets were banned for kids, said token issue would at least be only a "at home" issue then
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     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:33:40 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     When my boy is old enough to play on the computer I want to hook something like a raspberry pi 400 up to the living room TV so not only does he have to figure out how to use it on his own, he has to do it while everyone is seeing what he's doing.
     
     My nephew is a smart kid, and so I bought all the individual parts to build a computer, hook them all up to make sure that they were actually able to function, and then send him that along with install discs for Windows and Linux so if he wanted to be able to use his new computer he would have to figure out how to build it on his own and get it all configured and set up.
     
     I did send him a video on YouTube showing him all the individual little things so that he wouldn't be completely lost, but my understanding is that it was a pretty big challenge for a young kid but he did figure it out. You can imagine that his computer skills are on a completely different level than most of the people his age.
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:34:14 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     @coolboymew @mangeurdenuage @rms
     
     > But I feel like they'll never ever do this without secret tracking
     
     Fair concern.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 00:34:38 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • mdn
     • sj_zero
     @sj_zero @rms @mangeurdenuage fantastic "parenting" btw
     
     I learned all of this crap by myself, thanks to wanting to play more videos games
     
     We were stuck with a donated DOS PC at some point, I was taught the very basic on a sheet of paper and managed. Then a Win 3.1 PC, I played around and discovered stuff. Then at 2000 we got a real computer with Win Me. Win Me, yeah, I had to learn to fix stuff if I really wanted to play these video games hahaha
     
     Damn Norton uninstalling bricking the computer. Had to attempt safe mode, then in safe mode I outright deleted the Norton install folder. It worked!
     
     Then later I had to deal with MS Blaster, I had to search the web for the information I sought, turns out it's x virus that does this, then search for the cure... all in trenches of 1 mins
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     re_l@ryona.agency's status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:03:56 JST Re_L

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @coolboymew @rms @Moon @mangeurdenuage
     
     > without revealing identity.
     I think you can do it with zero knowledge proofs.
     You still need an identity provider that can be trusted but you don't have to trust every site you sign up to.
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:08:28 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @mangeurdenuage @Moon @rms We don't need more dumbed down shit. The reality is that the tech literacy is so low now, thanks to smartphones, that they don't know the options are there, they couldn't use it if they wanted it and most importantly, they don't have the skill and literacy needed to understand exactly WHY it's needed and how to actually properly mitigate the problems whether it's by their own hands of some laws needs to be made
     
     This is a thorough shitshow
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:08:29 JST mdn

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     @coolboymew @Moon @rms
     > various lock downs stuff, free DNS filtering, etc. THEY DON'T USE IT,
     I know. And they have no idea what these mean and they'll look at you with fish eyes if you try to explain it most of the time. So they need a simpler GUI for that without dumbing it down too much. Entirely feasible and it's something people demanded me often in the past.
     
     >tech literacy they don't have either
     Again a pedagogical issue :sadge:
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     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:08:30 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @mangeurdenuage @Moon @rms
     
     >Parental control
     
     That's the problem, we have all the parent controls solutions existing, various lock downs stuff, free DNS filtering, etc. THEY DON'T USE IT, part of which, doing so requires a modicum of tech literacy in the first place, tech literacy they don't have either
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:08:31 JST mdn

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     @Moon @coolboymew @rms Or the source of trust is the parents instead of the gov. Avoid extra complexity of tokens, just have non admin session for your kid with a form of parental control have the session synched with the parents devices and they're the one validating browsing/chats.
     
     That is imo the fairest way to do it. But I think that it would be best to not allow kids to use tactile smart devices in their current forms as cool said, they're made for the lowest common denominator and it just dumbs people down instead of doing the opposite.
     But such rules should come from the parents and not the gov. Thus again it comes back to pedagogy. Except in education, this crap should entirely be removed from education on a legal level.
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     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:16:31 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to
     @rms they're just going to go underground if this works ugh
     
     are we actually going to have kids under the age of 13 on fedi now? fuck
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     menherahair (menherahair@eientei.org)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:33:15 JST menherahair

     in reply to

     • Pleroma-tan
     @kirby @rms how come you think we don't have any now? :thinkoro:
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:28 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • mdn
     • Passenger
     @coolboymew @mangeurdenuage @colahpse @rms freedom means you have to let a hostile foreign country mentally enslave your entire juvenile population.
   • Embed this notice
     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:29 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     • Passenger
     @mangeurdenuage @Moon @colahpse @rms then what's the solution?
     
     There's none because nobody is tech literate enough to fathom the consequences and you can't have the population be forced to attend tech literacy courses
     
     So if the parents won't parents, the actual best solution is simply banning the stuff for the kids before we get stuck with 3 consecutive gens of complete tech illiterate with no attention span because the parents won't touch the subject with a 12 feet pole
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:30 JST mdn

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     • Passenger
     @coolboymew @Moon @colahpse @rms
     >It solves the parents dilemma for them
     Even if it can be I don't think that treating the population like mindless cattle to be a solution. I mean it's what the wef and current govs do and it doesn't result in anything positive.
   • Embed this notice
     cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:31 JST cool_boy_mew

     in reply to

     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     • Passenger
     @mangeurdenuage @colahpse @Moon @rms that's one of the reason I advocate for a law to ban them for kids. It solves the parents dilemma for them, it could also force a moral hysteria between the parents about it which would end them actually complying... for the better or for the worst, there could be side effects, but goddammit the parents absolutely won't do shit by themselves and doesn't have the skills to
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     mdn (mangeurdenuage@shitposter.club)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:32 JST mdn

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     • Passenger
     @colahpse @rms @Moon @coolboymew
     >because we've silently surrendered to the fact that most parents can't not give their kids phones and tablets.
     "BUT HE WILL BE ISOLATED BY THE OTHER KIDS IF HE DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME THINGS THE OTHERS HAVE"
     I can't wait to see the jump from a bridge trend.
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     Passenger (colahpse@bae.st)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:34:34 JST Passenger

     in reply to

     • cool_boy_mew
     • Sexy Moon
     • mdn
     @mangeurdenuage
     @rms @Moon @coolboymew
     
     Ideally. But I'd argue that legislation and Digital ID verification are only being floated as "solutions" at all because we've silently surrendered to the fact that most parents can't not give their kids phones and tablets.
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     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:35:01 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     @menherahair @rms because people under the age of 13 have to worry about eating their vegetables and why his roblox is not working
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     menherahair (menherahair@eientei.org)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:35:21 JST menherahair

     in reply to

     • Pleroma-tan
     @kirby @rms they grow up so fast now. at that age I was still going outside
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     Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Sunday, 04-Feb-2024 01:35:43 JST Pleroma-tan

     in reply to

     • menherahair
     @menherahair @rms TIMES HAVE CHANGED :elliotmad: