Aral Balkan
Israel—a terrorist state committing genocide in Palestine backed by the US, Canada, and the UK—has just destroyed the office building of the Belgian Agency for Development Cooperation in Gaza as retaliation a day after Belgium announced it would continue to fund the vital humanitarian work of #UNRWA.
Belgium is a member of the EU and NATO.
https://partyon.xyz/@nullagent/111859218913958892
#israel #gaza #palestine #genocide #ethnicCleansing #warCrimes #enabel #belgium #eu #nato #unrwa #un
speaker_hat
@aral
"Israel—a terrorist state committing genocide in Palestine"
There are so many wrong things written here:
1. By definition, Israel is not a terrorist state.
2. Israel is not committing a genocide. Israel goal is to take down Hamas. Unfortunately there are so many Palestinians linked to the Hamas. Look at the West Bank, for example, there are also Palestinians, and Israel don't attack there. Also, there are 20% Arabs with Palestinian origins within Israel which Israel also don't attack.
Aral Balkan
@speaker_hat Go away, bot.
Aral Balkan
@thetechtutor It’s not going to work, David. You’re not going to silence us from speaking out on behalf of the Palestinian people as Israel commits genocide.
I hope one day you will rediscover your humanity. Sadly, the Palestinian children being butchered in their thousands and the millions facing a manufactured famine cannot wait for that.
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@aral Aral Balkan-a programmer who isn’t Jewish, hasn’t been to #israel or #gaza, and doesn’t understand the definition of genocide-has just destroyed his reputation by calling #israel - and not #iran or #hamas - a #terrorist and genocidal state.
It’s a bad look.
For those of who stoop to his level and engage in this rubbish, remember: you can hate #biden as much as you like, but if you help Trump get elected, whatever hope you have for a #palestinian state dies.
Bo Morgan
@thetechtutor @mnemonicoverload @aral @jbburd
David, I think you're mischaracterizing Aral and all of the anarchist philosophy.
Aral was clearly talking about the state of Israel and not the people or people who have faith in the Jewish religion.
Israel is committing genocide. Read the definitions. Pay attention to the international court. South Africa is bringing a great case.
Aral Balkan
@neptune22222 @thetechtutor @mnemonicoverload @jbburd It’s an attempt to intimidate into silence. A failed one at that.
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@mnemonicoverload @aral @mnemonicoverload @jbburd
I’ve pretty much had it with anarchists, and how – despite not believing that any nation should have the right to exist – seem to focus all of their attention on #Israel. It is a poor excuse for a philosophy and, in practice, #antisemitism
If you want to parse terms or definitions have at it. Calling the state of Israel terrorists or genocidal is factually incorrect and hateful.
mnemonicoverload
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@mnemonicoverload @aral @jbburd his post speaks to the entire nation as committing terrorism and genocide. So no.
That’s not a good thing. Or correct. Or even moral.
Now if you’d like to say that all of #Hamas are terrorists, I’d agree. Their charter explicitly says they will hunt down and exterminate all #Jews and destroy #israel
mnemonicoverload
@thetechtutor
Good thing Aral's original post is calling out Israel (the state, and by extension its leaders) and not Israelis (the people as a whole) then, eh?
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
Some sure are, 100% agreed. And those folks are despicable humans, but mostly #Netanyahu who's a fucking thug and a more successful Trump than Trump ever was.
Both those folks are loathed by a massive majority of Israelis. Most simply want peace and have for 75+ years.
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@jbburd @aral Bold AND arrogant? Nice. I refer you back to the screenshot with the actual definition in my post.
jburd
Your screenshot doesn't include the whole definition. I included the clause most applicable above. Which Israeli leaders are open about committing.
jburd
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;"
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@jbburd @aral exactly. Which is not what Israel is doing. If they were, #gaza would’ve been annihilated on the 1st day of the retaliation. Nor would #israel have warned Gazans to evacuate.
It’s worth remembering: there was a cease-fire until #Hamas, an organization that explicitly states that it’s genocidal, massacred over 1200 Israelis and took over 200 hostages.
Targeted Military retaliation doesn’t = genocide no matter how folks insist it does.
jburd
You clearly have no understanding of the meaning of genocide under international law.
Aral Balkan
@thetechtutor @mnemonicoverload @jbburd David, maybe one day you’ll realise you’ve taken the side of the oppressor. Maybe you’ll even be sorry and feel regret for the role, however small, you played in legitimising a genocide. What you can never do, however, is say that you weren’t aware.
Aral Balkan
@thetechtutor @jbburd So it’s not genocide because they aren’t carrying it out swiftly enough for your taste? May I remind you that it took Nazi Germany six years to carry out the mass killings of the Holocaust? (And a further five to set up the infrastructure to do so, including the concentration camps.)
Israel has had decades to set up the infrastructure. Gaza is a concentration camp. Israel is carrying out genocide. And I am sickened by your apologism.
Aral Balkan
@thetechtutor @mnemonicoverload @jbburd State. Of. Israel.
How much clearer can I be.
The problem is your willful and malicious misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my words in an attempt to silence criticism of The. State. Of. Israel. (Which is committing the genocide of the Palestinian people as we speak.)
Aral Balkan
@thetechtutor Would you say Raz Segal, associate professor of Holocaust and genocide studies at Stockton University and the endowed professor in the study of modern genocide, knows what genocide is, David?
Aral Balkan
@Dwalin @thetechtutor You’re funny. I mean terrifying. But also funny.
Dwalin
Aral Balkan
@NatureMC Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Petra van Cronenburg
@aral I've remained silent on the subject until now and can live with contrary opinions. I was happy to follow you. But now you've crossed a red line. By trivialising the Holocaust with an utterly impossible comparison. I'm not debating that, just wishing you goodbye. I can't stand it. @thetechtutor
HeavenlyPossum
@RD4Anarchy @nicholas_saunders@mastodon.social @thetechtutor@me.dm @aral
The alternative to genocide is and always will be not doing genocide.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
Weird that you make this about me, especially after skipping over 10,000 killed children, and videos of cold-blooded murders of civilians with white flags, on your way to do it.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral make it about you? Not at all.
You've simply chosen to not answer my basic question -- so you have, to that extent, made it about yourself.
On the other hand, you throw insults my way, instead of, ya know, answering that real simple question which you've dodged countless times now.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
>>You've simply chosen to not answer my basic question...<<
I answered it multiple times. I even boosted your question 🤷♂️
>>...you throw insults my way...<<
I did? I mean I know I can be insulting sometimes, and I do swear a lot, but When did I insult you?
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/middleeast/hala-khreis-white-flag-shooting-gaza-cmd-intl/index.html
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-palestinian-israel-white-flag-shot-dead-killed-rcna135419
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral so you've ceded the argument, rd, and just want to point links to others making points for you.
RD
@thetechtutor @nicholas_saunders @aral
Know their names:
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral
https://mastodon.social/@nicholas_saunders/111868592884257168
RD
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@RD4Anarchy @nicholas_saunders @aral I love when ignorant anti-historians who hate #israel claim that people defend the slaughter of children because they simply support israel’s right to exist.
I revel in that and feast on your ignorance and arrogance.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
I did not say Israel dictated the form taken by those actions.
You desperation to defend the murder of children is driving you to absurd conclusions and very bad faith silliness. I'm going out in the world now, catch you later maybe.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
That's not my philosophy nor is it what I said at all, in fact I explicitly said otherwise, did you read and understand my entire post? Your characterization seems in very bad faith.
The fact that the Hamas action was in response to pre-existing circumstances in no way absolves them from moral responsibility any more than the state of Isreal is absolved of moral responsibility for atrocities it commits in reaction to Hamas' actions.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral if the al aqsa flood was a direct result of Israel's actions then Hamas has no culpability. And, no agency.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
Are you seriously arguing that the al aqsa flood occurred in a vacuum, arising out of nowhere, completely random and arbitrary?
The fact that Hamas reacted to conditions that the state of Israel created or enabled does not mean Hamas has no culpability for the decisions made about how to react.
You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now with your caricature of logic.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
FFS, of course Hamas had agency. Just like the state of Israel has agency.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral no, dude, you just explained to me that the Al Aqsa Flood was as a direct result of Israel's actions.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
I already told you my moral standards don't recognize rule of law so I can't answer in regards to "legally".
Morally I reject states so there is nothing a state could do militarily that I would consider moral.
Obviously this is an unrealistic expectation for an existing state, especially a ethno-nationalist one. But the horrifically high number of civilian casualties and physical destruction in this situation make it obvious that there was a huge spectrum of possibilities. One less bomb could have been dropped. Or no bombs at all.
There are virtually infinite possibilities that could have resulted in fewer casualties and less destruction.
But the state of Israel has deliberately chosen to punish Palestinians collectively. If they are minimizing civilian casualties then I can't even imagine what an "unrestrained" state of Israel would look like!
I can only conclude that as long as they don't use nuclear weapons we're supposed to respect their civility and western liberal values 🤷♂️
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral
"Morally I reject states so there is nothing a state could do militarily that I would consider moral."
What you've actually advocated for was no military response to the #AlAqsaFlood operation with this statement.
And, yet, you've in no way, ever, said that the Al Aqsa Flood itself was immoral.
I would point out that #hamas is a state actor, but you've already explained that legalities hold no interest for you.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
The Al Aqsa Flood itself was immoral.
There you go, happy?
It was also a direct consequence of actions by the state of Israel.
This does not mean I condone it, excuse it or support it at all, but I recognize it as a link in a chain of events that should not have been unexpected.
But two wrongs don't make a right. The ends do not justify the means (and I don't even agree with the supposed ends anyway).
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral
"It was also a direct consequence of actions by the state of Israel."
If so, then #hamas has no moral responsibility here at all. I find your philosophy interesting.
RD
@thetechtutor @nicholas_saunders @aral
>>I’m legit curious how often you post these same questions and concerns about #hamas #china #russia #iran and other radical & militarized nations?<<
What questions? You and nicholas have been asking all the questions. This thread was in response to a post about Israel, that's why we're discussing concerns about Israel here.
Your desperation is showing and your trolling flow chart has led you into a dead end.
All to defend the murder of children and innocent civilians. You know in the end you can't do that so you have to discredit me somehow and deflect.
My timeline is not hidden, you can easily see for yourself. Start with my pinned toots, maybe you'll learn something.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral I asked you one question. One.
You declined to answer on either a moral or legal basis.
Here is the question:
What military action would've been legally or morally acceptable to your high standards following the #AlAqsaFlood operation?
You've dodged this question.
It's a very reasonable question. Your inability to form a coherent reply isn't terribly interesting.
No nations. No borders. That's not an answer but a dodge.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
There is no point to this unless you're trying to say that the state of Israel could not have done even a single thing differently, it was what we're seeing now or nothing, and obviously that's nonsense.
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@RD4Anarchy @nicholas_saunders @aral
I’m legit curious how often you post these same questions and concerns about #hamas #china #russia #iran and other radical & militarized nations?
If I went on your timeline, would I see lots of posts about those countries?
Or is it just #israel you condemn and criticize for when they fall short?
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
>>...you don't specify what military action would've been legal following the #AlAqsaFlood operation.<<
My criticisms of Israel are not based on rule of law.
Focusing specifically on a hypothetical response to that particular event alone ignores the long history of Israel's occupation, oppression, apartheid, and its part in creating Hamas in the first place.
As someone who is not a military planner I'm not sure what the point would be of my speculation. But I do insist that Israel should not be killing children and other innocent people.
I may not have all the military-grade answers on how to defend against terrorists without killing kids but I'm pretty sure that dropping 2,000 lb dumb bombs in crowded civilian neighborhoods (for example) does not show genuine intent to limit civilian casualties. I've also watched videos of Palestinians with white flags, even following IDF instructions, being shot down in cold blood for no legitimate reason. I might suggest that's another thing that should stop.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral
Where you write that "focusing specifically on a hypothetical response to that particular event alone ignores the long history of Israel's occupation...," you've both dodged the moral question of:
What military action following the #AlAqsaFlood would've met with your personally high moral standards?
As well as setting the context as not just as Arafat has sought, but what now South Africa would seek.
RD
@nicholas_saunders @thetechtutor @aral
My moral standards do not recognize the right of the state of Israel - or any other state - to exist in the first place.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral so absolutely no response as to what military action following the #alaqsaflood operation would've been either legal or moral, then.
RD
You clearly do support the murder of innocents and children when you defend the state of Israel's genocidal actions. Your objection that these actions are not intentionally genocidal is absurd as so many of Israel's ruling elite have spoken plainly about those intentions, and the tactics being used by Israel are obviously genocidal both in intent and results.
You have to hide behind spurious accusations rather than face the truth of what Israel is doing. You leave yourself in the ridiculous position of having to believe that anyone who thinks genocide is occurring in Gaza is anti-Semitic and a supporter of jihad. You probably don't even buy this lie yourself but you still feel compelled to use it because you really have nothing else to support your genocide denial.
nicholas_saunders
@RD4Anarchy @thetechtutor @aral
Where you write "...face the truth of what Israel is doing," you don't specify what military action would've been legal following the #AlAqsaFlood operation.
RD
Meanwhile you're doing a very good job of establishing your reputation as a Zionist troll and genocide apologist.
#RedOctober 4 The #Phillies
@RD4Anarchy @aral Ha! Thank you, yes. I *clearly* support killing innocents because I disagree with your language. Right.
Hey, listen: have fun supporting #iran, #hamas, #hezbollah and radical Islamic #jihad in the name of “supporting” #palestinians.
They deserve a homeland but don’t deserve you.
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