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1. Embed this notice
   Carl T. Bergstrom (ct_bergstrom@fediscience.org)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:18:52 JST Carl T. Bergstrom

   BREAKING: Apartheid tool has thoughts on how voting ought to work.

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:18:51 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     @ct_bergstrom A Very American POV this. In my country IDs are required because the opposition will send ghost/fake votes.

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:29:26 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     @ct_bergstrom point taken. Why are ids such a bad idea, however, especially since there are bad actors around?

   • Embed this notice
     Carl T. Bergstrom (ct_bergstrom@fediscience.org)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:29:27 JST Carl T. Bergstrom

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai But Elon is not writing about your country.

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:32:26 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth MacKenzie

     @Dr_Elizabeth97 Ok then.
     @ct_bergstrom

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     Elizabeth MacKenzie (dr_elizabeth97@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 12:32:27 JST Elizabeth MacKenzie

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai, voting works differently across across U.S. states. Elon's description is not accurate. @ct_bergstrom

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     Nobody ناچیز नास्ति (he/him) (tadbithuman@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:01:14 JST Nobody ناچیز नास्ति (he/him)

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai @ct_bergstrom

     In India, similar, but then the election commission is required to provide free election identification documents for voters.

     In the US, the ID must be current, i.e. at current address, paid for by yourself. It can take a few hours to get one, and take $20 or more per person, so poor people that don't drive and move often from one rental dwelling to another have to spend a significant amount of time and money to get 'acceptable' id. Student id 🚫 gun owner id ✅

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:01:14 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Nobody ناچیز नास्ति (he/him)

     @tadbithuman I see! Interesting, now I know more. @ct_bergstrom

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:40:56 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette

     @Archivist do u guys (Europeans) use ids to vote too? @ct_bergstrom

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     Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette (archivist@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:40:58 JST Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @ct_bergstrom @liztai

     Curious European here, how is voting by mail secured to prevent people from voting multiple times or to prevent them voting "on behalf" of family members?

   • Embed this notice
     Carl T. Bergstrom (ct_bergstrom@fediscience.org)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:40:59 JST Carl T. Bergstrom

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai Others have addressed at ID issue well. I'm speaking largely about voting by mail. In the US, people don't get time off work to vote and in minoritized communities, voters may face lines with wait times upward of four hours.

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:45:24 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette
     • Ron Bowes

     @iagox86 ... wow in Malaysia they'd take advantage of that. In my country, mail ballots are often uesd as "last minute" votes to bolster a flailing candidate.

     @Archivist @ct_bergstrom

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     Ron Bowes (iagox86@infosec.exchange)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:45:25 JST Ron Bowes

     in reply to

     • Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette
     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @Archivist @ct_bergstrom @liztai In Washington, they mail you a ballot, you vote, sign it, mail back, and they verify your signature

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:49:50 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette

     @Archivist Likewise. We have literally people in wheelchairs and barely infirm people making the effort to vote. Govt would try to have busses to help them to the voting centres.

     @ct_bergstrom

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     Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette (archivist@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:49:51 JST Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai @ct_bergstrom

     Yes. Here you would actually have both an ID and a election card and need to provide both. You need to either vote in person, or fill a form at a military police station to allow someone to vote on your behalf if you are unable to vote

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:52:16 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette
     • Ron Bowes

     @Archivist Right? I find it a bit mind boggling.

     @iagox86 @ct_bergstrom

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     Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette (archivist@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 13:52:17 JST Ludovic Archivist Lagouardette

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾
     • Ron Bowes

     @iagox86 @ct_bergstrom @liztai

     How do they even verify your signature? That seems like a very easy to bypass security measure. Also it would not be constitutional in my country as voting must be anonymous here

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:03:49 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Space Catitude 🚀

     @TerryHancock I can't remember if we have to pay for our national ID. It's been such a long time since I got one lol.

     I don't think we don't have to except when we lose it. But yes, all citizens in Malaysia are given one no matter what.

     PS: Looks like we need to pay RM10 for each application.

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_identity_card

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     Space Catitude 🚀 (terryhancock@realsocial.life)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:03:50 JST Space Catitude 🚀

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai @ct_bergstrom

     It is important to understand that the USA does not issue federal photo IDs.

     You have to get them from the states; they are usually conflated with driver's licenses; are difficult to obtain. due to bureaucratic requirements; often require substantial transportation obstacles; and oh yeah -- they cost money.

     So, it's actually not uncommon for poor people to wind up without a state-issued photo ID.

     This is deployed as a strategy to prevent various groups from voting.

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:20:51 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Benjamin

     @birwin NGL i regret opening this can of worms hahaha
     I blame my impulsive fingers
     @ct_bergstrom

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     Benjamin (birwin@mas.to)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:20:52 JST Benjamin

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai @ct_bergstrom You got inundated with responses, but I think a root reason nobody said is votes are considered low value, but the penalty for voter fraud is a felony.

     Put another way, >60% of voters don’t vote most elections. But getting caught stealing someone’s vote can be years in prison.

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:24:01 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Benjamin

     @birwin Honestly and this is probably very communist of me, but I think voting during elections is overrated. I'm just tired of seeing people manipulated to support this or that cause/side but I'll shut up now cos I'll probably be called socialist next.
     lol

     @ct_bergstrom

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 14:31:11 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Benjamin

     @birwin case in point: BREXIT
     @ct_bergstrom

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     Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾 (liztai@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 19:43:24 JST Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • weilawei
     • Andrea Lazzarotto

     @lazza I think it may also be a cultural thing - I have a feeling having an ID could be a negative thing, like it involves the govt tracking you etc.

     @dalias @weilawei @ct_bergstrom

   • Embed this notice
     Andrea Lazzarotto (lazza@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 19:43:28 JST Andrea Lazzarotto

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾
     • weilawei

     @dalias @weilawei @liztai @ct_bergstrom good point, however the main issue is not that people should be able to vote without any verification.

     The big issue to solve is that every person should be able to easily obtain ID.

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     weilawei (weilawei@mastodon.online)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 19:43:30 JST weilawei

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾

     @liztai @ct_bergstrom Because their primary use here is to disenfranchise minority voters, not prevent bad actors.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 19:43:30 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾
     • weilawei

     @weilawei @liztai @ct_bergstrom There are statistically zero fake voters here. There are huge swaths of the population without acceptable ID.

   • Embed this notice
     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 09-Jan-2024 23:06:40 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Tai | 戴秀铃 🇲🇾
     • weilawei
     • Andrea Lazzarotto

     @liztai @lazza @weilawei @ct_bergstrom Yes, part of the culture here is that a lot of people don't *want* an ID. But I'm not sure how much that overlaps with disenfranchisement. A lot of the latter is lack of car or wish to have a car, expense, police seizing & destroying property including documents, abusers withholding documents, inability to get correct gender documents, etc.