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David Revoy (davidrevoy@framapiaf.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 00:42:31 JST David Revoy

The recent excitement surrounding Thread's arrival on the Fediverse is concerning. To understand why this is not a good idea, consider their economic interest in harvesting data, their poor moderation, and their manipulations. Nothing good can come from their federation. Don't roll out the red carpet for them.
#Threads #Mastodon #Krita #MastoArt #Meta
In conversation about a year ago from framapiaf.org permalink
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1. A small Mastodon mascot is happy to roll out a red carpet to welcome the footsteps of Meta; a representation of the death, a skeleton in a black robe with a scythe. This one has a head band with the Meta logo, and a keychain with large logo of What's App, Facebook, Instagram and Threads. The skeletons walks happily while hidding the scythe on their back. This is a representation of how naive the tiny Mastodon can be. License: CC-By David Revoy.
  https://stockage.framapiaf.org/framapiaf/media_attachments/files/111/579/493/824/961/814/original/5c33ebec05d28a00.jpg
- Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:, Puniko ?, narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: and clacke like this.
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  💜 Dr. Blight ❤️ (rasp@raru.re)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 00:42:30 JST 💜 Dr. Blight ❤️
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy True.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 00:55:07 JST Pleroma-tan
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy there were a lot of vectors for anyone to start scraping the fediverse and harvest data
  
  If they wanted to do it, they probably have already done it
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 01:14:19 JST Pleroma-tan
  in reply to
  - Tired Bunny :bunhdheart:
  @untsuki @davidrevoy yeah, so
  
  Anyone could do it, you signed up to your profiles being archived for a very long time.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Tired Bunny :bunhdheart: (untsuki@udongein.xyz)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 01:14:20 JST Tired Bunny :bunhdheart:
  in reply to
  - Pleroma-tan
  @kirby @davidrevoy But they WILL harvest data anyway, and use it like if it's on their platforms.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Pleroma-tan likes this.
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  Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 01:28:02 JST Pleroma-tan
  in reply to
  - Tired Bunny :bunhdheart:
  @untsuki @davidrevoy instances with mrfs that specifically go out of their way to put followers only content into public scope exist
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Tired Bunny :bunhdheart: (untsuki@udongein.xyz)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 01:28:03 JST Tired Bunny :bunhdheart:
  in reply to
  - Pleroma-tan
  @kirby @davidrevoy I mean, not anyone will get your private posts if threads user will follow you, and dms if they are directed at threads users, from federation. And there is still poor moderation argument
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 03:22:58 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @adiz @davidrevoy @ploum @mrFred489 mastodon and pleroma both have "instance silencing" that make it so a server doesn't show any of another server's users/posts by default, except that mutual followers can still communicate. it is just ignored almost completely by mastodon people for complete blocks instead because they are control freaks.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  mrFred489 (mrfred489@fosstodon.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 03:22:59 JST mrFred489
  in reply to
  - ploum
  @ploum @davidrevoy Can you explain which negative consequences you see from this? All the data they will get is public, so they could get it anyways. I don’t think that they can really manipulate the users of the fediverse through activity pub. Moderation may be worse, but there are laws enforcing some moderation, so it can’t be completely bad. If it really is, activity pub could possibly be extended to allow moderation of other instances instead of complete blocks.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶 (adiz@soc0.outrnat.nl)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 03:22:59 JST :verified_2:防空識別區𝒔𝒐𝒄𝟶
  in reply to
  - ploum
  - mrFred489
  @mrFred489@fosstodon.org activity pub could possibly be extended to allow moderation of other instances instead of complete blocksWhat do you mean by this?Can you explain which negative consequences you see from this? All the data they will get is public, so they could get it anyways.Would be more difficult for them to data-mine from the outside in vs. from the inside. Additionally, I believe a big fear is that Meta will use their position and dominance to assert themselves as a chief stakeholder in the AP spec and exploit their power to push unilateral changes similar to what Google does contemporaneously with web standards. @ploum@mamot.fr @davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  David Revoy (davidrevoy@framapiaf.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 03:23:01 JST David Revoy
  in reply to
  - ploum
  @ploum Please do.
  Many people seem to see this Threads federation test as a positive thing, or something to celebrate and I still have no idea why they do.
  Words missing here.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  ploum (ploum@mamot.fr)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 03:23:03 JST ploum
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy : looks like I will need to write a post to go with that new picture like I did with
  https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  David Revoy (davidrevoy@framapiaf.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 04:09:22 JST David Revoy
  in reply to
  - myrmidon
  @myrmidon I have no idea. I'm just a user. I understand those who are already defederated with them (as my instance), I understand those who are 'waiting and seeing'. But I'm also deeply concerned about those who praise this situation and try to normalise it as something positive. I don't see anything positive in it and I just wanted to say it.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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  myrmidon (myrmidon@mas.to)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 04:09:23 JST myrmidon
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy If I may ask, what kind of solutions do you have in mind?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 04:21:21 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @davidrevoy @ariane Mastodon creator didn't invent the Fediverse, wasn't here first. The Mastodon creator is very self-interested though. He had secret meetings with them too. Not interested in his opinion.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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  Samuel Leuenberger (leuenberg@cyberplace.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 04:21:23 JST Samuel Leuenberger
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy @ariane I have a hard time understanding all this angst about Threads, besides a gross misunderstanding of how the Fediverse works. The misunderstanding is quite acceptable for an artist or most of the users, far less so for some mastodon admins who decided to block Threads.
  I'm therefore inviting anyone thinking Threads is dangerous to at least read Mastodon's creator thoughs about it (and dispel some weird beliefs on the way) :
  https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: blog.joinmastodon.org
    
    What to know about Threads
    
    There’s been a lot of speculation around what Threads will be and what it means for Mastodon. We’ve put together some of the most common questions and our responses based on what was launched today.
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  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 05:03:14 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  in reply to
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @davidrevoy @ariane The way the Fediverse works on a technical level doesn't really matters, except for the fact that posts are sent very widely by default and how you'd end up with a all-or-nothing communication with Meta.
  
  The way Meta makes money via harvesting data and people manipulation on the other hand is important, the fact that Meta is proprietary is also important because it means they can do extensions without others being easily able to follow or solve interoperability issues.
  
  Gargron here is playing a dangerous game and is trying to lessen the harm Meta can do.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 05:21:18 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - dictatordave
  @dictatordave we don't actively try to piss off anyone for a while now, but we're still in the top ten most blocked instances lol.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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  dictatordave (dictatordave@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 05:21:19 JST dictatordave
  in reply to
  @Moon @adiz @mrFred489 @davidrevoy @ploum looking at the server block lists and the reasons are pretty hilarious
  
  where do you guys sit? its almost like a race to see who can piss off the most degenerates
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 06:22:09 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
  in reply to
  - Tired Bunny :bunhdheart:
  - Pleroma-tan
  @kirby
  My instance will probably just choke on the attempt of being scraped — it's naturally protected by its weak hardware :marseylaugh:
  @davidrevoy @untsuki
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Pleroma-tan likes this.
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  13 barn owls in a trenchcoat (hauntedowlbear@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 09:31:08 JST 13 barn owls in a trenchcoat
  in reply to
  - Stu
  @tehstu
  Threads has never previously been federated, so you will not lose any contacts, if that's of any reassurance.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Stu (tehstu@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 09:31:10 JST Stu
  in reply to
  - Eugen Rochko
  @davidrevoy Mastodon really ought to have provided much better information to people regarding losing follows when moderation like this takes place. I have absolutely no idea who I'm about to no longer be in contact with as Threads causes this schism. The onus should never have been on me, the individual. It's a total UX own goal.
  edit - I know you have your hands full and I apologize for tagging you out of the blue, but this is such a big deal @Gargron
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  tinydoctor (tinydoctor@mstdn.social)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 09:59:22 JST tinydoctor
  in reply to
  
  @davidrevoy Red carpet? I'm rolling out the kaltrops.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  13 barn owls in a trenchcoat (hauntedowlbear@eldritch.cafe)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 16:12:55 JST 13 barn owls in a trenchcoat
  in reply to
  - Stu
  @tehstu ah, yes, I see what you're getting at now. I'd assume that servers that don't wish to risk having their users seen by Threads would enable authorised fetch, but it's not like there haven't been blocking wars before.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Stu (tehstu@hachyderm.io)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 16:12:56 JST Stu
  in reply to
  - 13 barn owls in a trenchcoat
  @HauntedOwlbear At some point, I suspect people who don't want to see any Threads will defederate anyone who hasn't defederated Threads. That's when we'll all start losing contacts. Probably unknowingly.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Pleroma-tan (kirby@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:49:49 JST Pleroma-tan
  in reply to
  - Hachikuji Mayoi
  @douse_niggers_in_gasoline_and_light_them_up @davidrevoy im going to rape you
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Hachikuji Mayoi (douse_niggers_in_gasoline_and_light_them_up@eientei.org)'s status on Friday, 15-Dec-2023 23:49:50 JST Hachikuji Mayoi
  in reply to
  - Pleroma-tan
  @kirby @davidrevoy I'm doing it right now, what are you going to do about it? It's public information.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Pleroma-tan likes this.
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  your new favourite fungus (duponin@udongein.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:15:16 JST your new favourite fungus
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @lanodan @davidrevoy @ariane
  > Meta CANNOT harvest data on the Fediverse
  
  awww that’s so sweet and naive
  they totally can, activitypub federation is basically a replication platform
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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  Samuel Leuenberger (leuenberg@cyberplace.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:15:19 JST Samuel Leuenberger
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  @lanodan @davidrevoy @ariane Meta CANNOT harvest data on the Fediverse, this need at least to be understood. It is this myth and some others that Gargron is trying to dispel. Honestly explaining what Meta can and can't do on the Fediverse technically is not lessening the harm Meta could do but letting people make informed choice (as long as their admins allow them to).
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  your new favourite fungus (duponin@udongein.xyz)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:16:10 JST your new favourite fungus
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @davidrevoy @lanodan @ariane because you don’t understand how federation mechanics work lmfao
  nice try on your authority argument fallacy btw
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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  Samuel Leuenberger (leuenberg@cyberplace.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:16:11 JST Samuel Leuenberger
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  - your new favourite fungus
  @duponin @davidrevoy @lanodan @ariane Gorgron disagrees with you here, guess who's right ? Why would Meta get more power than any other application on the fediverse ? Why would your server suddenly disclose to Meta what it is not disclosing anyway to the other servers ?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:31:18 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  in reply to
  - your new favourite fungus
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @duponin @davidrevoy @ariane You get everything from users except email/IP/password. They still get your username and social graph.
  
  And personal data doesn't magically becomes detached from a person when it becomes public (which is actually not so public when it comes to profiles only visible via authenticated-fetches).
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Samuel Leuenberger (leuenberg@cyberplace.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:31:20 JST Samuel Leuenberger
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  - your new favourite fungus
  @duponin @davidrevoy @lanodan @ariane I think I understand enough to know that Meta is certainly not an issue here. But then please explain how suddenly Meta would be able to harvest your personnal data from your server ? I'm not aware of any way ActivityPub would allow you to get any information about the poster beside the thing he is posting (which is public anyway).
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:57:41 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  in reply to
  - your new favourite fungus
  - Samuel Leuenberger
  @Leuenberg @davidrevoy @ariane @duponin The thing which is different from Threads vs. other servers is that we can be reasonably sure right from the start that they're going to abuse the data.
  
  And we know ActivityPub sucks about data privacy and it could do better, but we also know that enforcing data privacy via technology alone doesn't really works because otherwise you'd end up a hermit.
  Never had a friend tell someone else about your secrets? Or did something a bit embarrassing in public? (Or that you'd regret years/decades later)
  Meta works like a creep who would gather information about people at their expanse.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Samuel Leuenberger (leuenberg@cyberplace.social)'s status on Saturday, 16-Dec-2023 01:57:43 JST Samuel Leuenberger
  in reply to
  - Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
  - your new favourite fungus
  @lanodan @davidrevoy @ariane @duponin Agreed, but then it's not a concern with Meta, technically they could retrieve all the public data they want with an accounts on big instance and start playing with the APIs.
  I suspect that many people freaking out about Meta have no idea of the big privacy issues intrinsic to ActivityPub, at least I know that Meta do not care about my activity since they can't monetize it. I'm not so confident about those rogue or badly maintained servers.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink

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