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1. Embed this notice
   clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 21:05:07 JST clacke
   > tres
   > cool

   
   #TShirtSpotting

   When it's all caps I prefer to think of it as lowercase in a font where all letters look uppercase.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 22:13:36 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Thomas
     @tfb Are accents optional on capital letters?
   • Embed this notice
     Thomas (tfb@functional.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 07-Dec-2023 22:13:37 JST Thomas

     in reply to

     @clacke all caps makes a difference though; très cool and TRES COOL are both acceptable spellings (-;

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:00:32 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     @clacke @hypolite @tfb It's on the numrow, so you need an actual caps-lock (or dead keys, or the full-on Unixy thing that's a compose key), while Windows only has a shift-lock so they cannot type É.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:00:33 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas

     @hypolite @tfb I'm showing my ignorance here, but isn't putting an accent on E as easy or difficult as putting an accent on e, both on the keyboard and on the screen?

     Do French keyboards have a special key for é that produces something unrelated if you press shift?

   • Embed this notice
     hypolite (hypolite@friendica.mrpetovan.com)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:00:34 JST hypolite

     in reply to

     • Thomas
     @clacke @tfb In theory no, in practice no one knows how to type them and relatively few fonts support them.
   • Embed this notice
     Thomas (tfb@functional.cafe)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:27:15 JST Thomas

     in reply to

     • hypolite

     @hypolite @clacke A situation that antedates computers. There's a long history of intellectuals complaining that majuscule letters should be accented too, and French people collectively ignoring them, except sometimes not.

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:28:01 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas

     @hypolite Oh! That's more exotic than I could have imagined.

     I wonder if this means users of French keyboards love the numpad more than others do. I would expect so.

     @tfb

   • Embed this notice
     hypolite (hypolite@friendica.mrpetovan.com)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 10:28:02 JST hypolite

     in reply to

     • Thomas

     @clacke @tfb French AZERTY keyboards have dedicated keys for é, è, à, ù and ç. US International keyboard requires combination presses, like ` and then a for à, ‘ then e for é, etc…

     This makes it easy to write accented capital letters by combining with a capital letters, while French keyboard dedicated keys don’t have capital versions like you said. For example Shift + é gives 2.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 14:56:24 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas

     @hypolite I haven't had a numpad in 20 years and I haven't missed it. 🙂

     @tfb

   • Embed this notice
     hypolite (hypolite@friendica.mrpetovan.com)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 14:56:26 JST hypolite

     in reply to

     • Thomas
     @clacke @tfb I can’t speak for everybody but all my laptops have had a numpad, even with a US keyboard.
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     LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} (lnxw48a1@nu.federati.net)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 15:16:37 JST LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}

     in reply to
     @clacke I seek out numpads. I even bought a USB numpad for one laptop. Even as little data entry as I do, I find it completely worthwhile.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 17:22:31 JST clacke

     in reply to
     @lnxw48a1 I type on the alphanum digits faster than I think or read. Maybe if I did major data entry I'd want a numpad.
     LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 17:23:25 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla

     @valhalla Scandinavian layouts don't suffer from this. When there's an ö then shift gives you Ö. If AltGr+ö gives you ø then Shift+AltGr+ö gives you Ø.

     I don't know what qualifier they would use to get œ on the same key, but that character as far as I know isn't used in Scandinavian languages nor in Finnish. Swedish Wikipedia says English and French use it.

     Maybe œ is printed on the ö key because some other layout than sv/fi would put it there.

     @hypolite @tfb

   • Embed this notice
     valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 17:23:27 JST valhalla

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas

     @hypolite @clacke @tfb the same happens with Italian keyboards: special keys for lowercase à è é ì ò ù, with different symbols when used with shift (iirc é is shift-è).

     And on the keyboard I'm using right now (which I believe comes from Finland) there is e.g. a key labeled ø ö œ which I believe works the same way, with shift and possibly alt (I don't *know*, I've always ignored the labels and used it with the us-altgr-intl map)

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 21:00:40 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla
     > the us-altgr-intl map

     
     @valhalla Is that EurKey you're referring to? It rocks!

     @hypolite @tfb

   • Embed this notice
     valhalla (valhalla@social.gl-como.it)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 21:35:19 JST valhalla

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas

     @clacke @hypolite @tfb no, I didn't know of the EurKey, and it's different

     it's somewhat similar, but it has dead keys for a lot of diacritics, and the position of the precomposed characters isn't the same as the EurKey

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 22:17:59 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla

     @tfb Yeah EurKey is more aimed at northern Europe.

     @valhalla @hypolite

   • Embed this notice
     Thomas (tfb@functional.cafe)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 22:18:02 JST Thomas

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • valhalla

     @clacke EurKey looks interesting, but yuck to the ANSI physical layout. And it's definitely very germanic in its choice/position of the precomposed accented letters. Which obviously isn't bad per se, but is also not going to ingratiate itself to Southern Europe

     @valhalla @hypolite

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 08-Dec-2023 22:18:04 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla

     @tfb It's ANSI because that's when you really need it. If you're on ISO the local layout is slightly annoying for programming, but ANSI+local makes programming impossible and that's when you start running multiple layouts and flipping between US and local.

     @valhalla @hypolite

   • Embed this notice
     hypolite (hypolite@friendica.mrpetovan.com)'s status on Saturday, 09-Dec-2023 01:25:17 JST hypolite

     in reply to
     @clacke @lnxw48a1 I work with LEGO set and part numbers, I wouldn’t be happy with the numrow, even without Shift involved.
     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paolo Redaelli (paoloredaelli@mastodon.uno)'s status on Saturday, 09-Dec-2023 11:45:28 JST Paolo Redaelli

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla

     @valhalla
     To get À É and the like on the #italian keyboard you can hit à è í ó with capslock activated
     @hypolite @clacke @tfb

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Saturday, 09-Dec-2023 11:45:30 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • Paolo Redaelli
     • valhalla

     @paoloredaelli Oh! That's a smart use of the caps vs shift distinction.

     @valhalla @hypolite @tfb

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Sunday, 10-Dec-2023 14:53:58 JST clacke

     in reply to

     If anyone is feeling bad about a quote from a t-shirt turning into a deep-dive on Italian keyboard layouts, *don't*.

     For every little insignificant everyday event I post about, this is what I'm *hoping* will happen, it's why I'm here. Call it manufactured serendipity if you want a fancy term.

     Off-topic is the main topic. I'm leaking random stuff from my mind that I hope will somehow teach me something I didn't know I wanted to know. Like how French people need to press Shift to get a digit.

     LinuxWalt (@lnxw48a1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864} likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paolo Redaelli (paoloredaelli@mastodon.uno)'s status on Monday, 11-Dec-2023 02:16:37 JST Paolo Redaelli

     in reply to

     • hypolite
     • Thomas
     • valhalla

     @clacke
     And it's only one of the many comfortable settings offered by #freesoftware that is sorely unavailable on #proprietarysoftware such as #microsoft Windows. This OS has so many usability issues that makes me wonder who people using it don't turn mad and crazy
     @valhalla @hypolite @tfb

     clacke likes this.