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   pukkamustard@chaos.social's status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:40:09 JST pukkamustard

   What programming language/framework would you choose to implement a relatively simple CRUD application with a HTTP and HTML interface that should run for the next 30 years with minimal maintenance?

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:40:04 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • clacke
     @clacke @pukkamustard Lua sadly tends to have breaking changes similarly to Python.
     clacke likes this.
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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:40:05 JST clacke

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     @pukkamustard Python moves too fast. Ruby and Rust too.

     I'd use Guile, Lua or Tcl.

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     pukkamustard@chaos.social's status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:40:07 JST pukkamustard

     in reply to

     The requirements of the application are pretty stable. There probably will be bugs to fix and minor features to add.

     I'm thinking of a real application that has been running for the last 25 years (rewrite in 2016) and imho is a vital piece of Internet infrastructure.

     Just a little thought experiment...

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     Ed Summers (edsu@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:03 JST Ed Summers

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     • clacke
     • My name is RAGE

     @pukkamustard @clacke @how yes, I just heard the same from Mark Graham in IA Slack. He said that it's a Python app (with some cache layers) that sits on top of data in IA storage.

     It turns out you can browse the PURL data in this IA collection:

     https://archive.org/details/purl_collection

     Each namespace is an item, that has a JSON file with the mappings in it. So DublinCore is:

     https://archive.org/details/purl_dc

     and it has JSON file:

     https://ia601205.us.archive.org/29/items/purl_dc/purl_dc_purl.json

     Kinda cool :-)

     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     pukkamustard@chaos.social's status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:05 JST pukkamustard

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     • clacke
     • My name is RAGE
     • Ed Summers

     @edsu @clacke

     @how did some digging into this as well. Apparently PURL was re-written in Python and there are no plans to release the code.

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     Ed Summers (edsu@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:06 JST Ed Summers

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     • clacke

     @pukkamustard @clacke I dropped a question in the Internet Archive Slack to see if anyone knows what software is running it now.

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     Ed Summers (edsu@social.coop)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:07 JST Ed Summers

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     • clacke

     @pukkamustard @clacke

     I don't know what the original service was written in but I think a rewrite started in 2007:

     https://web.archive.org/web/20070811100100/http://www.oclc.org/news/releases/200669.htm

     The federated approach and/or the software failed and it moved to the Internet Archive in 2016?
     https://blog.archive.org/2016/09/27/persistent-url-service-purl-org-now-run-by-the-internet-archive/

     I'm not sure if they are running the same service or if it is something new.

     I think some people got frustrated and created https://w3id.org/ which is basically some Apache rewrite rules maintained with Git.

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     pukkamustard@chaos.social's status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:08 JST pukkamustard

     in reply to

     • clacke

     @clacke Editing PURL entries is unreliable and simple changes take multiple attempts (for me at least). Luckily, the redirection itself seems to work reliably.

     I can't figure out what software IA's purl is running on, but it does not seem to be PURLZ (https://sites.google.com/site/persistenturls/) - the free software developed by OCLC.

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:09 JST clacke

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     @pukkamustard Wow, what's broken about it? And why does the IA run a proprietary service when OCLC used to run a free software one?
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     pukkamustard@chaos.social's status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 16:41:11 JST pukkamustard

     in reply to

     • clacke

     @clacke By the way, the real application I was thinking of is purl.org - a persistent URL service run by the Internet Archive.

     In my opinion, a vital piece of Internet infrastructure - but severely broken ... and closed-source??

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 21:05:47 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @pukkamustard oh
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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 21:05:48 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Ed Summers
     > I think some people got frustrated and created w3id.org/ which is basically some Apache rewrite rules maintained with Git.

     
     That's basically what we did at my first job internally! Literally inspired by the existence of purl! Except git didn't exist so it was svn. 😊

     @edsu @pukkamustard

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 21:05:49 JST clacke

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     • alcinnz

     @alcinnz @pukkamustard I'd say Common Lisp, Scheme (specific RnRS) or Standard ML.

     I saw an article a few years ago about "the centennial program" that chose sml for the solid packaging constructs.

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     alcinnz (alcinnz@floss.social)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 21:05:50 JST alcinnz

     in reply to

     @pukkamustard I'll vote for Lua... I don't know what else meets these requirements...

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     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 25-Oct-2023 21:05:51 JST clacke

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     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • alcinnz
     @alcinnz @pukkamustard one minus vote for lua:
     ♲ queer.hacktivis.me/objects/faa…
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.