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   Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:10:15 JST Matthew Garrett

   Thoughts on the Eben Moglen situation and how it reflects a wider problem in free software: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/68004.html

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:10:13 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     it's a welcome improvement to read what you wrote as criticism to your own past, hateful and dehumanizing self. congratulations!
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:41:47 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     I'm not making excuses for Eben. I don't even know of any facts to excuse. I have seen allegations that seem quite damning, but I try not to go about destroying people's lives over unproven allegations. I shall look into them first.
     
     but I did see reason to congratulate you on your apparent change of heart, but your response makes me wonder whether I read too much into it and was too optimistic. perhaps you could be explicit on whether or not you now criticize your own past abusive, hateful and dehumanizing behavior?
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:41:48 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo I've no problem with people criticising me. But if people prioritise criticising me over responding to descriptions of someone else's abusive behaviour, it's easy to interpret that as defending that abusive behaviour. I'm sure you're not actually making excuses for Eben here, but perhaps you'd like to be explicit about that?

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:57:11 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     how about we start with these 3:
     - I've seen you join the neurodivergent-intolerant lynching mobs against RMS
     - I've seen you celebrate getting someone fired and wishing them the consequences of being unable to afford a living
     - I've seen you make fun, and encourage others to make fun, of my own disability
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 10:57:13 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo if you point me at specific examples I'm happy to respond

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:22:55 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     (1) nah, not facts, the only fact was that you displayed cluelessness about neurodivergence by suggesting that neuroatipicity is a binary thing. you joined and celebrated attacks of intolerance based on word-twisting narratives and false accusations, along with others who now bring forth the allegations that you wrote about. going by that alone, I'd take the allegations as lies and exaggerations, but I'm not going to judge based on that alone
     (2) I am sorry, I misremembered. you "only" celebrated that the person got fired and wished them the consequences of being unable to afford a living
     (3) there's no need to be aware of a disability for making fun of it to be cool. there's only one circumstances I know of in which you made fun of me, but if there are so many that you can't pinpoint it, that doesn't make things look any better
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:22:56 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo

     (1) Can you point at specific cases where *I* have abused RMS? My criticisms of him have, as far as I know, always been based on facts.
     (2) I have never, to the best of my knowledge, got someone fired, so I have no idea what you mean here
     (3) I am unaware of you having any disability, and so am unaware of any cases where I have made fun of that (let alone encouraging others to do so)

   • Embed this notice
     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:23:41 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @mjg59

     go home lxo, youre drunk

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:41:08 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     nah, I really didn't mean to coopt the thread or to relitigate those issues. I really made a mistake thinking your criticism reflected a change of heart. your current wish towards Roy is indeed such an improvement, but ISTM you still dehumanize and direct hate towards others, which to me is exactly the behavior you criticize in your blog post. so I made a mistake in trying to read your post as non-hypocritical, that's all.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:41:09 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo (1) As I said, if you can point at specific examples of things I said or did I'm happy to revisit them. I don't recognise the scenario you're describing.
     (2) I don't think *anyone* should be in a position to be unable to afford a living. I think it's darkly ironic that Roy got fired for criticising his own employer, but I don't wish him destitution.
     (3) I'm sorry, I really don't know which case you're talking about. Like I said, if you can point at specific examples, I can revisit.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:53:17 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     it really doesn't, the abuse is not about not bringing forth evidence that one has, it's about making knowingly false accusations. anyway, I'm not here to convince you or anyone. I was just happy you'd got less intolerant, and I'm still happy about that, because there was visible improvement, just not quite as much as I misread at first. way to go, but still a long way to go.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 11:53:19 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo If you present such accusations without evidence, doesn't this fall into your own definition of abuse? I'm more than happy to discuss specifics, but if you're unwilling to point at them then this seems difficult. I am genuinely happy to explain why I've said certain things or to apologise if I realise that they don't meet the standards I hold others to.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 12:09:09 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     well, if that is true, there's something to be said about allowing yourself to believe very damning but false accusations, and acting destructively on them before (or without) checking that they're true. this is not about moglen, whom I know very little about, but about (1) the lynching mob you joined against someone I know very well. but I see there's some miscommunication here, there are so many different potential referrents to "abuse" in this thread that it got me confused. wishing someone to starve, making fun of disabilities, and joining lynching mobs are all dehumanizing behaviors, that then justify other repugnant behaviors towards the dehumanized target. that's not cool, and I hope you'll agree.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 12:09:11 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo I can absolutely promise that I have never knowingly made false accusations. I find the concept repugnant. Every single thing I say about anyone else is something I 100% believe to be true. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologise.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 13:08:24 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     you hoped nobody would hire him, which is just a different way of saying the same thing. you made fun of a disability without knowing it was a disability, but making fun is bad enough, even if a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. joining a dehumanization and character assassination campaign was not cool either, even if you believed the fabricated accusations. heck, even if the person were actually guilty of any of the allegations in any of the various rounds of escalation, none of them would justify public lynching. it's just not cool, and it's hard for me not to see the pattern of injustice and hypocrisy for the alleged sake of inclusion and tolerance. that really gets to me.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 13:08:26 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo As far as I know I have never expressed a desire that someone starve, attempted to make fun of disabilities, or engaged in any criticism of someone that I did not believe was 100% factual. Like I said, if you point at examples, I can either apologise or explain why I believe my behaviour was based on true beliefs.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 13:59:24 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     (1) that's IMHO an improvement over "I'm unable to extend that generosity"
     (2) by requesting me to come out WRT an embarrassing disability so as to satisfy your curiosity you're doing unto me the same thing for which you're piling on moglen. not cool
     (3) I'm surprised that you believed those fabricated accusations; other drafters of that hate letter have admitted to exaggerations and word-twisting. the whole thing, from different perceptions to pushing for ostracism amounts to intolerance to neurodivergent behaviors, weaponized to advance various other goals. accusing, fake-judging, condemning and mob-punishing over the victim's neurodivergence rather than ethnicity is not quite as cool as you suggest.
     (addendum) that sounds like whataboutism. I don't know the facts WRT the alleged criminal activity you engaged in, so I'm not going there. I'm not singling you out by responding to you in a public conversation you started and insisted on, without my bringing in entirely unrelated allegations that I'm not even familiar with. whatever you and he are doing to each other and your victims, whatever israel and hamas are doing to each other and their victims, whatever nato and russia are doing to each other and their victims, it doesn't belong in this conversation, that I started to congratulate you and express my appreciation for an improvement I'd noticed. alas, I was mostly mistaken, and it derailed.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 13:59:26 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo (1) Given the context, I intended it to be clear that I meant that I hoped nobody in this specific industry would hire him given his toxic personality traits. I hope he is able to find a fulfilling career in an environment where he is less likely to attack and demean his coworkers.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:19 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     it's really about my perception of hateful and dehumanizing behaviors. when I see two opposing parties engaging in that, my approach is not to pick one side and join in, but to criticize both. your quotes attributed to roy, though not relevant for this conversation, are not cool either, and I hope he too will strive to do better, despite all the bad blood I perceive between the two of you.
     likewise, though I and Kuhn haven't seen eye to eye for years, I can feel a lot of sympathy for the misery he claims to have been subjected to, and disapproval for the alleged behaviors attributed to Moglen, even while holding my judgment until I find out more, and at the same time worrying that the whole thing might be another instance of crying wolf for ulterior motives, a movie I saw before and didn't like at all
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:20 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo These are just false, and anyone who knows me well would be able to testify to that. Is your argument actually against my behaviour, or just against who my behaviour is targeted against?

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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:22 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo And:

     Oct 13 05:36:20 <techrights-news> This is why Moglen lives in an expensive place in New York and Gulagboy has been relegated to living in some shack in the woods not far from Reno (he cannot afford San Francisco or a real home anymore). Nobody would hire liars and charlatans when hard facts are exposed for all to see...

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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:23 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo Eg: (referring to me, from witin the past hour):

     Oct 13 05:24:39 <schestowitz> Gulagboy, the hmanitarian pervert
     Oct 13 05:24:45 <schestowitz> (he hates women too)
     Oct 13 05:25:00 <schestowitz> because they reject him romantically

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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:24 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo (addendum): Roy has knowingly made multiple false claims about me, up to and including that I have engaged in criminal activity. If your objection is to members of our community falsely attacking other members of our community, why are you singling me out without being equally critical of him?

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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:26 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo (3) I do not believe that the campaign to encourage the FSF to distance itself from RMS was a dhumanisation campaign, and I do not believe that the accusations were fabricated. I also *strongly* disagree with the use of the term "lynching", which generally refers to racist murder.

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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:24:27 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo (2) I genuinely do not know what you're referring to when you claim that I made fun of a disability. There may have been a miscommunication of some sort. Can you point me to the specific incident?

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:30:03 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     it was intention to make fun of something I did, that was clear enough, but as I said before, it was a minor thing. in itself, it was no biggie, but its being part of a pattern of intolerance, dehumanization and mob aggression made it stand out to me.
     I have no desire to revisit those hateful posts, but I blogged about it shortly after that episode, maybe the date will help you locate it: 2020-02-27
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:30:04 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo If it seems I made fun of a disability that I was unaware of and which you're unwilling to talk about, I'm sorry - it wasn't my intention and I have no wish whatsoever to attempt to hurt you on that basis. I can't attempt to justify it or explain it without a pointer to what happened, but please know that that was not what I wanted to communicate. It's not a matter of curiosity, it's a genuine desire to ensure I never do so again. I'd be happy to have that conversation privately.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:50:02 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     you got the timeframe, but look for something you found hilarious rather than disagreeable
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 14:50:04 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo If it was the criticism of the "Free software 9/11" post, I can promise that the intent of the criticism there was purely towards the content of the post, not any broader aspect of you

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 15:45:55 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     email was where you observed the behavior you made fun of, but you may not even know that I saw your making fun of it elsewhere. it was public, but not a forum I participate in. and it's not like it seemed, it's like you were, but I have no reason to think you thought of it as a disability. heck, I don't even have a name for this fuzzy perception of time in the past, by which I perceive things as "just the other day" or "a long time ago", having little clue as to exactly when things happened. it leads to embarrassing mistakes when I go by otherwise faulty memory, and, as I said, I didn't make much of it in itself, but making fun of it in public in a gang didn't fit with the notions of promoting inclusive, tolerant and respectful behaviors. it was rather cheap, cruel and hateful.
     see, it doesn't matter whether you perceived it as a disability. ridiculing someone for a mistake, for ignorance, for a disability, for a different cultural background, is not any cooler than doing so for sexual identity or orientation, for ethnicity... the difference is that some of these are more socially tolerated than others.
     same goes for endorsing a cancellation campaign over intolerance to characteristics related with disabilities, and incomprehension of differences in perceptions of context, meaning, and intent. it's no less hateful just because you don't know or don't understand enough of these things to know better. there are terms for that: prejudice and intolerance
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 15:45:57 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo Your email response to it? Sorry I've dug through various archives but I'm not finding it. I really don't want to push you to talk about stuff you don't want to so I'm not going to press on this point, and if it seemed like I was making fun of a disability then I'm sorry - it was either not my intention or I was wrong to do so and genuinely apologise for it.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 15:52:07 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     as for your apology, I appreciate and accept it.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:03:44 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo I'm afraid I still don't recognise the situation, and can't explicitly respond to it. If there's ever a situation where you'd feel comfortable talking to me about it then I'd be happy to, but I understand if that doesn't feel comfortable.

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:21:56 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     you've put together quite a strawman there. I see you don't like it. I don't like it either. want me to help dismantle it?
     you may have missed my reproaching the alleged behaviors attributed to Moglen. they're not ok, *if* they happened, but we don't know that they did. at least I don't. do you? all I have to go by so far is an allegation by someone who has cried wolf before. my conscience won't allow me to condemn someone over such weak... heck, I don't even think it qualifies as evidence.
     a common mistake I perceive is higher pressure for condemnation and more willingness to overlook lack of evidence the more odious the accusation is. that's emotionally understandable, and it is sensible to take precautions, but a more odious accusation does not make the accused party any more guilty than a minor one before evidence corroborates it. like, mjg59 is allegedly accused of criminal activity, but until I see supporting evidence for the allegations, those accusations tell me nothing about him; they might tell me something about him, about the accuser, or about neither, depending on the evidence, after it is presented, but not before. likewise, I've witnessed other parties mentioned in mjg59's blog post pushing intolerant accusations that turned out to be false, and otherwise behaving in reproachable ways, but I shall not conclude from that alone that the present allegations are also false. these would be unjust and fallacious conclusions
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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:21:57 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @mjg59

     i understand how you can have one standard for mjg and another for everyone else-- everything mjg does is automatically wrong, even in self defence.

     anything moglen does, no matter how wrong, is meaningless unless hes convicted in a court of law. OH AND testimony to that effect before a court of law is also some kind of wrongdoing as well. glad thats cleared up.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:36:01 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     another common misconception is between offering the alleged victim help and empathy, and giving the victim's report full unquestionable credibility. the latter would be too prone to abuse, and has often been abused indeed, and it conveniently disregards other common possibilities, such as that the accused is the actual victim and the accusers are the actual perpetrator, as in the case fabricated against rms. good justice and good science are not made based on allegations and on outrage provoked by them. those are too easy to manufacture. solid fact finding requires a clear mind, not the turbulence of outrage.
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:44:20 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     you seem to have made up more than enough to create a picture in which you feel entitled to attach an accusation of promoting apartheid to the strawman, just because I don't take an unsupported allegation as unquestionable truth, when the parties are knowingly involved in a dispute.
     surely if someone were to accuse you of something (hopefully) absurd but as outrageous as genocide, without presenting any evidence, you'd not want me to take that allegation as true, would you? how's that unlike what you seem to be expecting of me WRT any other unsupported accusation?
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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 16:44:22 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo i dont buy it. i know firsthand how your biases and "rules" play out in scenarios like this, and youre absolutely prescribing what amounts to social standard apartheid here. i get that youre either not aware of this, or potentially just dishonest, but either way it signifies nothing. i can hardly build a straw man when you give me less material than straw to work with.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 19:07:24 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     you appear to be mistaking me for someone else. I don't even support what you accuse me of, nor do I have power, influence or interest in creating such a world. I actively oppose it, and this entire thread has been my opposing it and the double standards that enable it.
     you're of course entitled to your unfounded opinion about my motivations, and even to embarrass yourself by expressing it, but I find your unsupported assessment that I don't offer it quite unfair, especially when you don't have the slightest clue as to the facts that I've had access to WRT any of the allegations in any of the disputes we've covered herein. thus, your allegation comes across to me as a cheap shot, probably some kind of inappropriate generalization, applying to me conclusions that you've drawn from unrelated circumstances that you find to vaguely resemble whatever you picked from what I've written here. jumping to conclusions about me and what I stand for, IOW
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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 19:07:25 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo all i meant by "social standard apartheid" is that you have spent years creating a world where free sw luminaries are entitled to one set of fountains and reign to accuse and abuse, while anyone critiquing them is chastised for poking fun at how ridiculous these double standards are.

     your occasional appeal to waiting for all the facts to come in, i dont disagree with (which is why it took years for me to sympathise with kuhn) but consider it posturing- you ask it but dont really offer it.

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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 20:04:14 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo its possible youre a different alex oliva from fsfla who goes by lxo and posted the other things i thought you said in this thread, if so, i would want to reevaluate.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 20:04:14 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     I am that alex oliva, but I don't identify myself as the source for various of the allegations that you attempt to associate with me, such as:
     - that I'm not at home, or that i'm drunk :-)
     - that moglen can blackmail employees
     - that anyone protesting that is some kind of demon
     - that everything mjg59 does is automatically wrong
     - that anything but a conviction in a court of law would be meaningless
     - that testimony is some kind of wrongdoing
     - that you know how "my" biases and "rules" play out (I haven't stated them, have I?)
     - that I prescribe social standard apartheid
     - that I entitle luminaries to accuse and abuse
     - that critiquing them gets one chastised (by whom?) for poking fun at [alleged] double standards
     - that I appeal for others to wait for facts to come in, but don't offer that to others
     none of these allegations follow from anything I wrote or think (for most of them, their opposite does), they all seem to be pure speculation and strawman building. of course if you try to substantiate what led you to those wildly wrong guesses, you'll realize they aren't supported by anything I actually wrote, and whatever remains will certainly be a result of taking something I actually wrote as meaning something entirely different from what I intended, interpreting things and filling in blanks with disfavorable assumptions. it would be useful if you gave that a try so that we could dispel those misguided assumptions
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 10:54:01 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     it's possible and reasonable for *you* to have enough evidence to come to a conclusion while *I* do not, is it not? I mean, what got me into this conversation was reading mjg59's blog post and liking the progress I saw in them. I had not yet read the filings he linked to. I think I'd already read kuhn's post, and sfc/fsfe's joint announcement. but those are *all* the same side. I, out of principle and policy, resist making up my mind before listening to opposing sides. maybe you don't. or maybe you do have other information. what you suggest of me, for my cautious approach to making judgments and my care to avoid jumping to conclusions, sounds unfair to me. but, again, you're entitled to your opinion, to your quick or careful judgments, and even to jumping to conclusions if you so wish, and also to express them all. just please don't put pressure on me to condemn (or to absolve, for that matter) before *I* have enough evidence to meet my standards. that pressure is what leads to witch hunts and mob lynching, and I wish no part in that. (I'm not claiming that this is what this case is, BTW, but it's too soon for me to rule even that out)
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     trdebunked (trdebunked@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 10:54:02 JST trdebunked

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo

     > I am that alex oliva, but I don't identify myself as the source for various of the allegations that you attempt to associate with me

     okay, you dont recognise them.

     > it would be useful if you gave that a try

     it really wouldnt. you do things, youre called out, you dont recognise youve done them, obviously- and moglen has also done things and you treat that as something theoretical when i think enough evidence exists to say it most likely happened.

     in short: you dont get it. okay.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 10:58:54 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     thanks. I'm pretty sure I was there on that year. I even watched his speech, but I surely didn't have the context to read between the lines what you did.
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     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 10:58:55 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo Oh, one thing I should add - if you're concerned about the lack of corroboration regarding Eben's behaviour, you know people who should be able to confirm or deny my claims about what happened at Libreplanet 2017.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 11:14:21 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • trdebunked
     there's more I'd like to say. I value my time, I don't have infinite amounts of it available, and looking carefully into a dispute I don't even feel that I have a horse on is something I hesitate to do. I often find myself hyperfocusing on things of far lesser relevance, sure, and that's the very sort of hard-to-resist impulse that makes me concerned about keeping what I devote my time to in the first place.
     another issue is that there are several different allegations floating around, and since I have made it a point to not discuss any of them, you may have concluded that "I don't get it" even on some point for which there is enough evidence, while I, neurodivergent that I am ("everything is separate") am thinking of something else when I say I don't have it.
     bottom line: I'm actively avoiding being dragged into the dispute between kuhn and moglen, and even if I did have a position on it, I find social media witch trials and cancellation campaigns about as repugnant as other forms of abuse cited in the allegations.
   • Embed this notice
     Matthew Garrett (mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)'s status on Saturday, 14-Oct-2023 11:33:43 JST Matthew Garrett

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo it wasn't during his speech, it happened at the end of the conference in a hallway

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.