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   Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 13:15:13 JST Pawlicker
   "bro like bro like bro like just use Linux for gaming bro it just works like bro you should use it"
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 13:15:12 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to
     @PurpCat Its work most of the time :pepe_cofe:
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     :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:24 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis
     Because that is what you do if you want games to "just work". In fact, gaming on Windows involves insane amount of fuckage, PC gamers just got used to it. If your config is even a tiny bit non-standard, good luck figuring out why it doesn't work. There are many games that refuse to launch just because you didn't install them to c: drive, and they don't even give you any meaningful error messages, they just don't run. Support can't figure out shit most of the time too, best luck if someone on some fucking forum has managed to figure out why shit doesn't work as expected.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:25 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     @PurpCat @sneeden @arcanicanis yeah i have a friend who only uses macs and just recently became a dad and just games on his xsex
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:25 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis the last mac owner I know who played games just did it on console anyway.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:26 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis Yeah but do you think Mac users play games? They play that pussy like it's Call of Duty.
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     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:27 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     @sneeden @PurpCat @arcanicanis it most likely is, but a lot of people seem to be able to play with Crossover just fine
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     Edward Sneeden (sneeden@iddqd.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:28 JST Edward Sneeden

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat @mischievoustomato @arcanicanis isn't gaming on mac shit too?
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     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:29 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     @PurpCat @arcanicanis he had the vision, the willpower, and had good enough intuition to make good UX+UI.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:29 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @arcanicanis it's not even just about that
     it's about your goddamn game working
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:30 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Johnny Peligro
     @mischievoustomato @arcanicanis the steve jobs secret was his tech knowledge was peak normie and he wanted it to work, he was an aggressive manager but he had the history to back him up.
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     Johnny Peligro (mischievoustomato@5dollah.click)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:31 JST Johnny Peligro

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     @PurpCat @arcanicanis > I think the Linux people need to listen to Steve Jobs
     I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR A AGES
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     arcanicanis (arcanicanis@were.social)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:32 JST arcanicanis

     in reply to

     Or use Flatpak Steam, which specifically has the EAC-enabled Proton build, if I’m not mistaken.

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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Monday, 09-Oct-2023 14:25:32 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     @arcanicanis IMO, I think the Linux people need to listen to Steve Jobs and make it so it just werks. I just downloaded this from OpenSUSE, I was hearing oh VRC werks on Linux and what do you know it doesn't.
     
     The truth is, when people ask why The Sims whatever doesn't work, they'll be back. You can laugh at the Ubuntu Girl all you want but she is how most people work. They don't have hours to fiddle with getting the thing that just worked on Windows working.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 03:55:13 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • Edward Sneeden
     @sneeden it's because of anticheat bullshit so that trannies can be protected online this is not even a goddamn joke
      likes this.
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     Edward Sneeden (sneeden@iddqd.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 03:55:14 JST Edward Sneeden

     in reply to
     @PurpCat I hate that windows is so fucking shit now because I know switching to linux is going to be eternal pain in the ass
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      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:39 JST 

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat @mischievoustomato @m0xEE @sneeden @arcanicanis Ironically, Win32 API provided by Wine is more stable than native Linux one. Oh, you're running a distro with updated glibc and the game publisher didn't bundle it with the game? Tough luck.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:40 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     @m0xEE @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis The thing with Linux and *nix in general is that there's literally no standards (and when there were, tbh they were held with red tape and way out of date like Motif was).
     
     But also, when you target Windows you target most of the world. The only other platform is well, MacOS which is programmed with Cocoa instead, and chances are if you target that you have most of the world.
     
     It's the same thing that killed off some other OSes, it's the paradox of adding in a compatibility layer and developers deciding "hey why should we target this OS that like 2 percent use when I can just write once and run it anywhere".
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     :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:41 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @arcanicanis
     I agree, we are unlikely to see truly native games, in a sense that Quake games were, ever again. Even if it's not some smartass wrapper around Windows build, like Proton, the devs most often rely on what their engine of choice offers, if it supports the platform — have a build, if it doesn't, then well… life's unfair. In terms of reliability it's a mixed bad too: if you're on some popular platform, bugs will likely get fixed, if it's something less common and platform specific — original devs just don't care most of the time.
     I'm fine with containerization though. GOG also uses something like that — their wrapper is a set of old libraries and scripts that LD_PROLOAD them in a nice way. I don't mind having redundant copies of libraries as I have to rely on glibc chroot for these things anyway — most of my systems are musl-based.
     @mischievoustomato @PurpCat @sneeden
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     arcanicanis (arcanicanis@were.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:43 JST arcanicanis

     in reply to

     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro

     DRM and anticheat has been like the lead cause of all problems, even on the targeted platform of Windows itself. There’s plenty of the older games I have from younger years that were a task just to get working on Windows again, such as with ‘Safedisk’ DRM with Sim Theme Park, where you can’t even get past the first loading screen, without several patches or third-party edits just to get it launchable, in Windows.

     I agree that Wine/Proton shouldn’t be the end-all solution, meanwhile as Proton came about, it seems like developers just stopped bothering to care about native builds, and too much of the community has grown complacent with Proton. But there’s also the flipside that: ironically older Windows APIs are long-term supported (also just because it’s a clearly distinguished target; a la Win7 or something), and thus it just ends up being ‘easier’ supporting something Windows-only, unless you practically ship a Docker-ish container of userspace libraries your game needs to run on, which Steam on Linux honestly somewhat is: each of the Steam Linux Runtimes (scout, soldier, sniper, etc) are just specific version-froze distro userspace libs, which a developer can target and have assurance is going to be long-term supported.

     Compare with plenty of the early Humble Indie Bundle games with DRM-free Linux native builds, where plenty of them are incredibly difficult to natively install now (including having to pull in all the 32-bit libraries, and more), or not at all (because of dependency issues on a no-longer provided version of a library). Thus Linux gaming is primarily down to Valve; there could just be similar community efforts of having an alike container environment (of the same distro targets as the Steam Linux Runtimes) perhaps, to just become the norm for shipping games on Linux, otherwise I don’t know what else there is for options. Flatpak already can do some/all of that, there’s just no specific options decreed as ‘the standard options’, otherwise you’ll end up with probably like 13 different Linux userspace environments installed for like 20 games or something.

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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:44 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     @m0xEE @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis idk man it's easier than dealing with yet another layer of extra fuckery
     
     Especially when you get home from your satisfying job
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     :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:05:44 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat
     > dealing with yet another layer of extra fuckery
     I agree, that throwing Wine or whatever they have like that these days, Proton and whatnot, into the mix does add another layer of complexity, but examining Wine's logs at least makes sense if you want to figure out why something doesn't work, with Windows it's: "Deal with it, it just doesn't — get another game". I can show you my numerous attempts at contacting EA or UbiSoft support — they literally never go beyond "Update you videocard drivers", they are never able to help you with something more complex than their textbook set of issues.
     Therefore my original point is that is you want a completely effortless experience, consoles are the way to go. PC master race style remarks that you just have to get yourself a good rig are a load of crap IMO — some features of top of the line hardware never get utilized outsize of tech demos, developers seldomly care enough to even optimize for that because most of their customers use high to medium settings anyway, never ultra . You spend $20k on latest-greatest only to discover more bugs that you never encounter with lower settings and feel yourself fucked over. In most of the cases with PC gaming you get exactly the same experience as with consoles, but with more fuckery. Of course not all genres are suitable to be played with a controller, but come on — even indie shit is already on there.
     Another problem is dealing with insane amounts of DRM bullcrap, with Windows you're only knee-deep in this shit, not all the way, but even this changes for the worse too. And fast! :marseysigh:
     @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     Pawlicker (purpcat@clubcyberia.co)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:09:17 JST Pawlicker

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     @m0xEE @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis "By embracing the end user market, IBM created the biggest technical support nightmare that the IBM company may have ever seen. The #1 tech support report for OS/2 Warp 3 was not how to get TCP/IP stacks going or how to link Novell up with OS/2 clients, or how to make sure DB/2 would work on the new version. No, it was "How do you get DOOM 2 to run on OS/2 with sound?" IBM has a highly paid, highly trained technical support staff that was meant to deal with Fortune 500 companies who had paid millions of dollars for software and hardware from IBM. They weren't prepared to have to deal with a bunch of people trying to run video games and the support costs from this really hurt PSP at the time. This probably has a lot to do with why PSP today goes out of its way to discourage "kitchentop" users because they don't want to support every new user that wants to play some video game on OS/2. "
     
     -Brad Wardell, OS/2 dev.
     https://www.stardock.com/stardock/art_os2past.html
      likes this.
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     :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:09:19 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat
     Yeah, OS/2 is a textbook example of this, but when I look back on it today, I think that this wasn't what killed it. It had been fine in Win 3.1x era, but Windows 95 came together with the boom of Web — in Windows 95 setting up a dial-up connection was like: click-click, phone number, click, username-password, click-click — done. With OS/2 it has been a fucking adventure, even getting normal TCP/IP networking running wasn't for the faint of the heart, a PPP-connection? Forget about it! Even using Arachne in DOS wasn't that hard TBH.
     @mischievoustomato @sneeden @arcanicanis
      repeated this.
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     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 04:19:29 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     @PurpCat @mischievoustomato @m0xEE @sneeden @arcanicanis >he thing with Linux and *nix in general is that there's literally no standards
     This entire thread presumes that linux should kill windoze and become a os that most people use. I'm sorry to tell you but you have entirely missed the point. The more you try to "standardize" the more it becomes a piece of shit. In the entire idea that "we needs more users" is also untrue.
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     :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading: (m0xee@breloma.m0xee.net)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 05:58:30 JST :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:

     in reply to

     • arcanicanis
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Edward Sneeden
     • Johnny Peligro
     @arcanicanis @mischievoustomato @dcc @PurpCat @sneeden
     Some people just hate themselves enought to get into abusing relationships with other people — and even with companies, when they are actually paying for services rendered. Who the fuck knows why they do this, but there is now way around it :marseyshrug:
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
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     arcanicanis (arcanicanis@were.social)'s status on Tuesday, 10-Oct-2023 05:58:31 JST arcanicanis

     in reply to

     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • Edward Sneeden
     • :marseyloadingneon: m0xEE :marseyloading:
     • Johnny Peligro
     Well there's LSB and XDG standards just to have basic intercompatibility inside of the Linux world, so that you can jump between GNOME and KDE or whatever, and not have everything fall apart. Standards are fine as long as it's not just to drive monoculture, or to overengineer something just to sell consultancy.
     
     Ultimately I don't care about 'everyone' moving to Linux, I just don't want it where one company is able to get away with sabotaging so much of an industry, and yet have people doing the usual "well, it's what 'the real world' uses" lip service to double-down on their mistake of defending Windows/Adobe/whatever crapware that people trap their livelihoods on. But honestly, the stupider it gets, and the more Microsoft sabotages things, then it's honestly a fate well deserved for its users.
     
     If someone makes a better option than Linux, even if more esoteric, I'd probably be fine with using it for myself (as long as it's some form of free or open source software). I've juggled with BSDs for some use-cases. I'm just tired of proprietary software that's actively fucking over its users, that often gets defended by people unwilling to learn or adapt, or by people just willingly choosing their misery.