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   eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 06:38:55 JST eris
   The thing I hate the most about "Trans men are me and men are bad so trans men oppress me!!" is that I've never actually met a trans guy who wants to perpetuate patriarchy, they've all been wanting to queer the concept of manhood and embrace feminine aspects of themselves and be little twink elf fairies who want to destroy gender
   
   The idea of the bad trans guy is like, one YouTuber and a couple people on Twitter, and maybe some ignorant people who talk over trans women, but trans men are not universally accepted by cis men and don't universally perpetuate misogyny, and takes like that are probably why you don't know any
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     Sir Inge (ildottore@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 06:52:44 JST Sir Inge

     in reply to
     @eris Honestly I’m not quite sure that’s it. The “elf femboy” types tend to be more transmisogynistic in my experience, due to being attached to claims of womanhood and being very resistant to discussions of transmisogyny.
     
     That being said, I still think there’s a disruptive potential in trans manhood
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 06:53:20 JST eris

     in reply to

     • Sir Inge
     @ildottore nah these girls think every trans guy is Kalvin Garrah
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 07:02:05 JST eris

     in reply to

     • Sir Inge
     @ildottore should I not stick up against my mutuals in my replies making universal statements condemning all trans men as morally bad?
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     Sir Inge (ildottore@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 07:02:06 JST Sir Inge

     in reply to
     @eris Honestly Eris, you might want to back down from this. It’s much more complicated than a simple argument on fedi can address, and I feel like not having trans men discussing it is part of the problem in the first place—and I’m currently too busy to go into my more detailed thoughts, nor am I in the mood to argue
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     armpit licker feet smeller (tiskaan@fedi.layer02.net)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 07:02:50 JST armpit licker feet smeller

     in reply to
     @eris do they not see the flipped perspective of them then being oppresors towards trans men? how can you be against perpetuating heiarchy but then do that.
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     Sir Inge (ildottore@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 07:06:22 JST Sir Inge

     in reply to
     @eris I just think this is going nowhere and would rather advocate my position on my own time, as an actual trans guy when trans guys are being discussed
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     eris (eris@akko.disqordia.space)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 07:07:25 JST eris

     in reply to

     • Sir Inge
     @ildottore sure but if people come at me with their bigotry that's insulting a lot of my friends online and in real life and I'm gonna take issue with it without waiting for a trans masc to come along
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     ☣Blind Arachne☣ (conquestoftoast@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 08:06:00 JST ☣Blind Arachne☣

     in reply to

     • ☣Blind Arachne☣
     @eris and to be clear this doesnt even touch on how gender is policed with trans fems in those spaces, the differences in how non binary trans fems and non binary trans mascs are treated is fundamentally different and *theres a reason for that*
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     ☣Blind Arachne☣ (conquestoftoast@social.xenofem.me)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 08:06:01 JST ☣Blind Arachne☣

     in reply to
     @eris I know a ton of trans men and have worked with, been victimized by, befriended, and when I was still figuring out my shit, fucked. So I should be able to speak on this directly according to your criteria of who ought to have a voice on it.
     
     But the long and short of it is I don't think anyone, or most people, who have those takes are trying to say that trans men utilize patriarchy the same way, they don't. The ways that trans men and trans masc folks benefit and utilize transmisogyny is tailored to the spaces where they *can* exercise that power dynamic. Which is largely queer spaces both online and offline. Thinking that they must act on misogyny and transmisogyny in ways that cis men stereotypically have and do just further helps ignore the problem.
     
     But if you're looking for specific examples, heres a few that I've either personally witnessed or was targeted with:
     
     stating they aren't really men so they can't really rape and so a trans woman was ignored and pushed out of the community for "causing drama"
     
     selecting who can and cannot organize in mixed queer spaces based on how aggressive trans women are, blaming "male socialization", but not having to answer for similar aggression in moments of weakness
     
     after being rejected for sex having a trans woman excommunicated for "latent misogyny"
     
     once a trans woman shouted at a trans man after he hit her, and the DV was blamed on her and her inability to "unlearn her male behaviour"
     
     Now those are the more extreme examples but the trend you should notice is that trans men and trans masc folks can, and do, claim kinship to the gender that subverts responsibility, and trans women are held to kinship with the gender where punishment is easier to enforce. She got angry? its her male aggression She talks about being victimized? its because shes a crazy woman.
     
     But all of this is to say that trans men are men and men are trash is just holding trans men to the same category as men, because they can and do benefit from misogyny and transmisogyny. to fight against that very basic analysis is just #notallmen-ing and its gross and weird.