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billiam :4chan: (billiam@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 14-Aug-2023 23:12:19 JST 
billiam :4chan:
Is this you, Gleason? @alex
>I am a host for a medium-sized website and I am attempting to automate dealing with the CSAM problem that comes with hosting anything online. Are there any tools out there that provide free and easy access to APIs for verifying images and videos against CSAM databases, or out-right dumps of hashes from CSAM databases? Looking around, I've only been able to find services that require a large amount of pre-approval for use rather than just a simple account. Any pointers would be appreciated.
>Tech I've already looked into:
>Facebook's ThreatExchange (requires pre-approval)
>PhotoDNA (requires pre-approval)
>Cloudflare (actively hostile to self-hosters)
>NCMEC's Database (requires pre-approval, difficult to get from what i've heard)
>EOKM HashCheckServer (requires pre-approval, in dutch so very difficult to understand)
https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/95347156#p95348122-
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Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Monday, 14-Aug-2023 23:12:17 JST 
Alex Gleason
@billiam I wouldn't post that because I'm already 10 steps ahead of that user. Glad to see other people are thinking about this problem. -
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Alex Gleason (alex@gleasonator.com)'s status on Monday, 14-Aug-2023 23:13:19 JST
Alex Gleason
@billiam Here's my unpopular opinion. The best way to prevent child porn is to ban porn. Fediverse Contractor likes this. -
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kroner (kroner@seal.cafe)'s status on Monday, 14-Aug-2023 23:37:07 JST 
kroner
Ummm.... based as fuck? (For a vegan) Fediverse Contractor likes this. -
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pwm (pwm@crlf.ninja)'s status on Monday, 14-Aug-2023 23:37:13 JST 
pwm
@alex @billiam it's THAT easy Fediverse Contractor likes this. -
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Shadowbroker:nv::pondering_orb: (shadowbroker2135@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 00:23:57 JST 
Shadowbroker:nv::pondering_orb:
@midway @alex @billiam FBI needs to actually shut those sites down instead of just taking control of them and continuing to let millions of images get traded just to catch one guy. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 00:23:58 JST 
midway
I guess the best way to stop the murdering of children is to ban all murder.
If something is already illegal, you don’t fix it by making something adjacent to it illegal. It’s almost like criminals don’t care that it’s illegal.
Not to mention the endless arguments over what is porn exactly.
My point is not to advocate for porn but rather to show that more banning of things that aren’t child porn won’t fix the actual problem of child porn. All you will accomplish is to make millions upon million of harmless people criminals while not stopping child porn at all. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 00:24:36 JST 
BowserNoodle ☦️
@Shadowbroker2135 @midway @alex @billiam But how can they collect informants and scum to blackmail without their honeypots? -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 00:36:41 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @billiam Nobody is happy with a single picture of pretty lady with nice boobs.jpeg forever. How many models start as "tasteful bikini pictures" and a few years later are doing hardcore fetish scenes? How many users of pornography start with disgust towards things that eventually become their fetish? Even if most people would never go down that particular path, some tiny fraction of a percent will. Widespread availability of pornography has absolutely contributed to more CSAM because 0.001% of 2 billion is a lot more than 0.001 % of 10 million. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:01:11 JST
midway
You draw lines when you have actual harm to kids. That’s why child porn is illegal. You can’t make it without harming children.
And the vast majority of porn consumers never go near that path. Just like the vast majority of alcohol drinkers are not alcoholics. You don’t ban booze because some people can’t handle their liquor. We tired that. It caused more problems than it solved. You would have the same results here.
Focus enforcement on the truly criminal and leave everyone else alone.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.Alex Gleason repeated this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:13:03 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @billiam I don't believe the comparison to alcohol is appropriate for a few reasons. From a physiological perspective, dopamine pleasure seeking is one of the most primitive aspects of developed life forms, with sex being one of the most common paths for that. Everybody is born predisposed to pornography addiction, the way everybody is born physiologically capable of heroin addiction. The same is not true for alcohol. Psychologically, sure, but that's also present for pornography and most drugs. From a sociological perspective, it's harmful because of its impact on pair bonding, assortative mating, and the normalization of hypersexuality in culture leading to children emulating the behaviors of adults. This barely scratches the surface on either of these two concepts; tomes have been written on this from completely non-religious perspectives.
My opinion on this is for a first step is to reduce the availability of pornography by making it a less profitable industry. Make them jump through more hoops than gun sellers and buyers. That alone would decrease the financial incentive to saturate the web, and the overall decreased availability would make CSAM easier to remove. -
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marlin (marlin@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:43:36 JST 
marlin
@alex @billiam Someone get this man a Hugo Boss suit pronto. Alex Gleason likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:44:11 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @billiam I've already destroyed your false equivalency between alcohol and pornography, and you've not responded to the physiological difference and are hand waving sociological ones as if they're moral concerns.
>make porn less profitable...
I said to treat it like guns. I've never heard of anyone getting debanked for having an onlyfans, yet JPMorgan won't let you open an account if you're a "gun store".
>Amateurs are giving it away for free makes it tougher to earn a living selling it.
Somehow pornhub and mindgeek exist. Pretty wild how they just operate without much profit in an environment where people can get things for free, right? Maybe there's some other way they're getting money? Or maybe their purpose isn't just to be profitable? -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:44:12 JST
midway
If your goal is to make mainstream porn less profitable, the Internet already did that. Amateurs are giving it away for free makes it tougher to earn a living selling it. The Internet is also why you won’t have much success keeping it from people. It’s really tough when you don’t need to get a physical item like a gun, a drink, or a pill. And we can’t effectively stop those things from being sold…not even in prisons. Do you really think you will stop people from accessing porn on the Internet?
Most of your moral arguments were also used by the prohibitionists. Alcohol was harming families and, ultimately, children. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:57:08 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@caekislove @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam @midway More reason to hate porno -
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Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:57:09 JST 
Caek Islove ? ❤️
@LovecraftEnthusiast @midway @alex @BowsacNoodle @billiam Yeah, porn was using the freemium business model decades before anyone thought to use it for video games. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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LovecraftEnthusiast :shyduck: (lovecraftenthusiast@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:57:11 JST 
LovecraftEnthusiast :shyduck:
>If your goal is to make mainstream porn less profitable, the Internet already did that. Amateurs are giving it away for free makes it tougher to earn a living selling it.
Virtually all pornsites your average person will visit are free, the goal is to entrap addicts that will whale on premium content. Its been like this for over 15 years and porn is only more prevalent than ever -
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elftummy?:confederateflag:??????????? (elftummy@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:58:07 JST 
elftummy?:confederateflag:???????????
@King_Noticer @BowsacNoodle @midway @alex @billiam
If the product is free then YOU are the product
They're taking your soul and giving you brain damage that domesticates you -
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King_Noticer (king_noticer@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 01:58:08 JST 
King_Noticer
@BowsacNoodle @midway @alex @billiam When the product’s free, they’re taking something else BowserNoodle ☦️ repeated this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:07:03 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@elftummy @King_Noticer @alex @billiam @midway In 2002, Israeli soldiers occupied Palestinian TV stations during the second intifada and a fairly active hot war in several areas. Naturally, parents are keeping their kids home because they don't want them to be accidentally (or deliberately) killed by the firefights and patrolling vehicles. Pornography gets broadcast on all the TV stations, over the air, when whole families are stuck inside for safety. Really makes ya think. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:24:27 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @caekislove @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam It helps if we actually put any effort into mitigation. We do not. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:24:28 JST
midway
No one is saying you have to like it. I’m just saying you can’t practically ban it. -
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Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:24:41 JST
Caek Islove ? ❤️
@midway @BowsacNoodle @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam True, but there's still value in suppressing it. BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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Remi (remi@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:25:17 JST 
Remi
@BowsacNoodle @elftummy @King_Noticer @alex @billiam @midway And, just to make sure it's part of the conversation, banning or restricting pornography is not some wild fantasy that's ahistorical nor abnormal. Besides the obvious African and Middle Eastern bans, many countries in Asia ban it outright as well. Thailand banned it in fucking 2019.
In b4
>but they just use VPNs
So fucking what? Would you make all-or-nothing arguments regarding any other issue? Why SHOULDN'T people be made to jump through hoops, minimizing the total pool that has access to the stuff and potentially be arrested for trying to do so? There should be risk instead of the current hedonistic free-for-all that more and more doesn't even bother including an "I'm 18" button on startup.
worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-porn-is-illegal -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:34:08 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @caekislove @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam Okay, but I already explained a very easy solution for a lot of it. Debank it like guns. I want to decrease demand which starts by reducing unwanted solicitation (ads).
>porno company can't have a US bank account. Can't take visa, MC, PayPal, etc. Taking ads from one of these companies is considered "affiliation" making your company potentially suspect and debanked.
They already use this for guns and political speech. Guns still exist and forbidden political speech does too, but those are protected under first and second amendments. Pornography is, kind of, but could easily be revisited and they precedent destroyed. We have the SCOTUS to do that right now even. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 02:34:09 JST
midway
Like…..
Given you can see it on the internet at zero consumer cost, that’s going to be tough to mitigate. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:15:27 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @caekislove @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam They're already tracking and abusing people in that industry. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:15:28 JST
midway
So you’re ok with people being trafficked and abused unless they share your morals. Got it. -
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Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:15:29 JST
Caek Islove ? ❤️
@midway @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @BowsacNoodle @billiam I don't want thots to have legal protections. I want the opposite, in fact. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:15:30 JST
midway
Value is subjective.
To the adults working in the industry, having it out in the open allows for legal protections. Suppressing it does the opposite. -
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LovecraftEnthusiast :shyduck: (lovecraftenthusiast@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:16:03 JST
LovecraftEnthusiast :shyduck:
That’s literally happening right now in your “legally protected” industry BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:42:55 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@midway @alex @caekislove @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam >All of this because you are upset that other people are getting off in a way you don’t like.
I've been trying to tell you that's nothing to do with it, and it's not connecting. Do you think I'm lying, or arguing in bad faith? I have a ☦️ in my name, and I make zero attempts at concealing my beliefs. I also live in the real world and am not some kind of strawman crusader caricature. Incremental changes towards reducing ease of access would be a healthier thing for society than free pornography for everyone. I do not worry about the absolutism nearly as much as I worry about 9 year olds watching hardcore pornography and becoming addicted that early. That stops through deliberate efforts, and my proposed solution is far better than using government internet ID, which is what will probably happen if it isn't handled in a middle subtle way. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:42:56 JST
midway
But the law need a distinct line. One could argue that certain passages of the Bible (or works derived from them) could be porn. Most porn is actually protected. Be careful what you try to regulate. What is art and what is porn is a very subjective thing. One could produce a political work of, say, a politician screwing over a taxpayer….using literal imagery but still making a statement against those in power. The slippery slope is real.
As far as banking goes, they will just bank overseas. Do you really think that Asia will follow suit? If you want to push crypto usage, I suppose this is one way to do it. And you’ll cause the creation of offshore payment services. If sufficient demand is there, a market will be born. When Patreon kicked off the sex workers, they basically created OnlyFans.
Illegal narcotics are “debanked”. I guess we made them tough to get. Oh wait….
All of this because you are upset that other people are getting off in a way you don’t like. Seems like a lot of effort for that. Like I said, focus on the harming of kids. You’ll get much more support. -
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Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:48:02 JST
Caek Islove ? ❤️
@BowsacNoodle @midway @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam >>All of this because you are upset that other people are getting off in a way you don’t like.
He says this while denying that he's a coomer. 🤔BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:56:01 JST
BowserNoodle ☦️
@caekislove @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @billiam @midway To be fair to him, a lot of people take a more libertarian view on this sort of thing for a number of different reasons. People should be skeptical about supporting something that could be used to target our rights, because we've seen how stuff like The PATRIOT Act is abused, along with a number of "think of the children" movements throughout modern history. We have a fundamental issue of "letter of the law" in our society, and this is frequently abused by bad actors with agendas. Pornography hitching itself to free speech so that Larry Flint could make money is actually the textbook example of this. -
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midway (midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:59:10 JST
midway
Uh, no I didn’t. There are plenty of places that operate under a regulatory framework. That’s how you help prevent these issues and it will allow you to focus on the real crimes.
Legal brothels actually have health regulations and there’s no need for pimps. It’s just a job. Not one I would want to do, nor a place I want to go but if you understand that there are a lot of people who will go, try to make it safe and then spend time and resources going after those who aren’t following the rules.BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this. -
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Caek Islove ? ❤️ (caekislove@gleasonator.com)'s status on Tuesday, 15-Aug-2023 03:59:11 JST
Caek Islove ? ❤️
@midway @alex @LovecraftEnthusiast @BowsacNoodle @billiam You just described the porn industry.
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