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1. Embed this notice
   Cory Doctorow (pluralistic@mamot.fr)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 05:45:12 JST Cory Doctorow

   "#Populism" isn't intrinsically left or right. The distinction between the two is often obscured by jargon, but there's a simple litmus test (courtesy of #StevenBrust): "ask what's more important: human rights, or property rights. If they say 'property rights are human rights,' they're on the right."

   --

   If you'd like an essay-formatted version of this thread to read or share, here's a link to it on pluralistic.net, my surveillance-free, ad-free, tracker-free blog:

   https://pluralistic.net/2023/08/04/owning-the-libs/#swiper-no-swiping

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   • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     rticks (rticks@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 05:45:11 JST rticks

     in reply to

     @pluralistic

     I use the term "Windowfucker" to refer to assholes who look for how much was damaged in a riot rather than people injured or why they were jpset

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 05:46:26 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     @pluralistic if they say "human rights are property rights", fucking run

     (https://ia802706.us.archive.org/8/items/MurrayRothbard20150601/HumanRights-AsPropertyRights-5.pdf)

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 06:50:15 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Azuaron

     @Azuaron @pluralistic Rothbard is the guy who invented anarcho capitalism. He also unironically identifies as an atheist Thomist. It's some fuckshit lol

   • Embed this notice
     Azuaron (azuaron@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 06:50:16 JST Azuaron

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @anarchopunk_girl @pluralistic

     ...what the fuck did I just read?

   • Embed this notice
     Azuaron (azuaron@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 21:50:53 JST Azuaron

     in reply to

     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @InkySchwartz @ianepperson @anarchopunk_girl @pluralistic

     "In the free society, they would, <gigantic arbitrary and hostile restrictions for even walking down the street>."

     Honestly can't imagine being so removed from reality to believe this is "freedom".

   • Embed this notice
     Inky says "What the hell?!" (inkyschwartz@mastodon.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 21:50:54 JST Inky says "What the hell?!"

     in reply to

     • Azuaron
     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
     • Ian Epperson

     @ianepperson @Azuaron @anarchopunk_girl @pluralistic

     Read the final paragraph and realize it's a wishlist of what they want property rights to be.

     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Ian Epperson (ianepperson@sfba.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 21:50:57 JST Ian Epperson

     in reply to

     • Azuaron
     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     @Azuaron @anarchopunk_girl @pluralistic

     Reads like he has a fundamental misunderstanding of several “rights” and expounds on that misunderstanding at length.

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 21:56:11 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Azuaron
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @Azuaron @InkySchwartz @ianepperson @pluralistic what you have to understand to really get why ancaps are like this is that they have *redefined the concept of freedom in terms of property rights.* So when they say "property rights bring freedom" or that you could "maximize freedom by respecting property rights," it doesn't make sense to you because you have a definition of freedom that's actually derived from existing in the world and understanding what it feels like to be actually free, whereas for them it's just a circular tautological statement that's true by definition because they've rewritten the definition of freedom. So yeah, you're precisely right, they're removed from reality entirely. You see, for Rothbard all that matters is constructing a gigantic edifice of rational logic to serve as his workview. So anything that can't be perfectly specified in simple and clear classical logic has to be redefined or it has no place in his worldview. And so, of course, by this continuous process of redefinition and abstraction, he one by one annihilates all the things tethering him to reality and replaces them with hollow and self referential logical constructs, until he's created this entirely artificial logical construct to inhabit with no way out, like a hall of mirrors. It's classic Thomism really. Talk to a Jesuit sometime, they're just like this lol

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 23:47:51 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Lamhfada
     • Azuaron
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @Lamhfada @Azuaron @InkySchwartz @ianepperson @pluralistic it should, I used to be an ancap years ago before I realized their freedom was a pretend farce, that capitalism isn't free — and that everyone around me was turning into fascists. I know how these people think.

   • Embed this notice
     Lamhfada (lamhfada@mastodon.ie)'s status on Saturday, 05-Aug-2023 23:47:53 JST Lamhfada

     in reply to

     • Azuaron
     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @anarchopunk_girl @Azuaron @InkySchwartz @ianepperson @pluralistic That's a fantastic point that I hadn't thought of before - it explains so much.

   • Embed this notice
     HeavenlyPossum (heavenlypossum@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 04:01:29 JST HeavenlyPossum

     in reply to

     • Lamhfada
     • Azuaron
     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @Azuaron @Lamhfada @InkySchwartz @pluralistic @anarchopunk_girl @ianepperson

     What was the process of leaving it behind like?

   • Embed this notice
     novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️ (anarchopunk_girl@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 04:05:28 JST novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️

     in reply to

     • Lamhfada
     • HeavenlyPossum
     • Azuaron
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @HeavenlyPossum @Azuaron @Lamhfada @InkySchwartz @pluralistic @ianepperson it was a sort of gradual process. I shut off my communication with the ancap community I'd been a part of basically all at once, especially when I started noticing the deep strains of fascism in it. After that, it mostly consisted of me reconsidering what my actual values were, and rebuilding my beliefs on top of that, seeking out real (i.e. leftist) anarchists to talk to, reading real anarchist theory, and reawakening my sense of compassion, fairness, justice.

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     HeavenlyPossum (heavenlypossum@kolektiva.social)'s status on Sunday, 06-Aug-2023 04:31:11 JST HeavenlyPossum

     in reply to

     • Lamhfada
     • Azuaron
     • novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️
     • Inky says "What the hell?!"
     • Ian Epperson

     @Lamhfada @ianepperson @anarchopunk_girl @pluralistic @InkySchwartz @Azuaron

     Thank you