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1. Embed this notice
   Roni Rolle Laukkarinen (rolle@mementomori.social)'s status on Sunday, 30-Jul-2023 04:08:47 JST Roni Rolle Laukkarinen

   • Erin Kissane

   I have re-read the magnificent article by @kissane, titled "Mastodon is easy and fun except when it isn’t". On Bluesky, she asked those people who had tried/used Mastodon and bounced off, what had led them to slow down or leave.

   tl;dr; reasons why they left Mastodon:
   - Got yelled at, felt bad
   - Couldn’t find people or interests, people didn’t stay
   - Too confusing, too much work, too intimidating
   - Too serious, too boring, anti-fun
   - Complicated high-stakes decisions

   "I don’t know if Mastodon can grapple with the complexities of mass scale. Lots of people would prefer it didn’t—staying smaller and lower-profile makes it friendly to amateur experimentation and also a lot safer for people who need to evade various kinds of persecution. But if Mastodon and other fedi projects do take on the mass scale, their developers must consider the needs of people who aren’t already converts. That starts by asking a lot of questions and then listening closely and receptively to the answers you receive."

   For many parts I agree. But despite everything, Mastodon/Fediverse is still the best place to be on social media. Let's make this even better. We have the power. #Mastodon #OpenSource #Fediverse #Bluesky #BlueskySocial

   • clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:27 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul

     @PavelVoronezh
     > the ability to back up data on one of the friendly servers

     Have you looked into the Zot protocol and its Nomadic Identity? It does exactly that. Of all the fediverse software I'm aware of, only Hubzilla and Streams implement Zot. I'm pretty sure Zot apps could already do this when ActivityPub was being drafted. Not sure why this capability wasn't included in AP

     #Zot #NomadicIdentity

     @smallcircles @rolle @wrigleyfield

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Paul (pavelvoronezh@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:28 JST Paul

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @strypey @smallcircles @rolle @wrigleyfield I wrote a proposal to the developers to add the ability to back up data on one of the friendly servers.
     Server owners could negotiate data reinsurance for their users and offer them additional account security guarantees.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:29 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul

     @PavelVoronezh
     One idea that app devs could look into, is embedding in third-party apps the ability to recreate your social network on a new server. In ways that will still work if the original server is completely gone. This could optionally include automating a regular backup of all your posts to your device. So they can be auto-posted to your new account, ideally with the date altered to reflect the original posting date.

     Do you think this has legs @smallcircles?

     (2/2)

     @rolle @wrigleyfield

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:32 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul

     @PavelVoronezh
     My app translates your post as being concerned about the risk of losing your identity and network, if the server hosting it goes down.

     The lack of account portability is a serious limitation of the ActivityPub protocol that defines the way servers federate. One that's getting a lot of discussion among devs. One of the challenges is how to make accounts and posts more portable, without making the network more vulnerable to spammers and trolls.

     (1/2)

     @rolle @wrigleyfield

   • Embed this notice
     Paul (pavelvoronezh@techhub.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:33 JST Paul

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @rolle @wrigleyfield @strypey Rakastan sitä, mitä teet. Tämä on erittäin tärkeää kansalaisyhteiskunnan ja ihmisten välisen viestinnän kehittämisen kannalta. Haluan kertoa teille huolenaiheistani siirtymisestä ei kovin suosittuihin palvelimiin. Minun tilini, tämä on minun maailmani. Minun persoonallisuuteni, ystäväni. Jos siirryn uudelle palvelimelle ja se lakkaa toimimasta jostain syystä, menetän kaiken. Käytännössä minun on aloitettava uusi elämä. Onko olemassa keinoja välttää tällainen skenaario?

   • Embed this notice
     Roni Rolle Laukkarinen (rolle@mementomori.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:34 JST Roni Rolle Laukkarinen

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield I have over 7000 followers on Twitter and nowadays and posts get barely any comments whatsover. And if so, the trolls...

     Here on the contrary, hundreds of comments, lots of boosts... etc. It's like two different worlds.

     On my instance and many others like https://universeodon.com there's open text search available. Hashtags are good too. This place works already (at least for me) better than Twitter ever did.

     @strypey

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:35 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @rolle I guess our experiences were very different! My Twitter count was the perfect size for me on that platform (~7,000 followers: big enough to have really interesting conversations in a setting where an algorithm shows you to followers’ followers; small enough that I almost never had random trolls pop up). I really want this place to work but I’ve had a lot of challenge getting anywhere near the same level of interesting exchange here. 🤷🏻♀️ It’s so hard to find the posts I want too!

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:37 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield I've always found the fediverse less toxic than *any* part of Titter I've experienced. With temporary exceptions, when there's a huge influx of newbies hopped up on DataFarm algorithm nosecandy, and spoiling for a fight. But before long they always calm down. Or block me, or leave for lack of drama etc. Either way, it's a problem that appears to solve itself.

     (Side note: Timed Mute is really handy for getting usually good people out of your face if they're getting snappy)

     @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:38 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield
     No comment covers all criticisms. I was addressing criticisms based on the lack of features like Quote Posts, which can be used in almost every fedi app *except* Mastodon.

     > the less toxic parts of Twitter

     ... is not something technologists can recreate for you. That's up to the people who want it, and there are *many* moderation tools available, at both account and server level.

     @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:39 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @rolle @strypey Thanks. I'm on Mastodon; it was a tongue-in-cheek question aimed at the idea that those of us who've found Mastodon a disappointing social media experience are expecting it to replace all social networks at once, or something

   • Embed this notice
     Roni Rolle Laukkarinen (rolle@mementomori.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:40 JST Roni Rolle Laukkarinen

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield I always recommend Mastodon. @strypey

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:42 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @rolle What do you recommend for those of us who want something like the less toxic parts of Twitter...?

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:44 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     @rolle
     > Mastodon/Fediverse is still the best place to be on social media. Let's make this even better.

     100%. One problem that causes friction for newbies is the expectation that Mastodon can be all things to all people. Somehow we need to convince people who want an InstaGram/TikTok-a-like experience to try PixelFed, or people who want more of a neighbourhood feel to try Hometown, or people who want Quote Posts to try FireFish. The fediverse has so much more to offer than Mastodon.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:48 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul
     > Not sure why this capability wasn't included in AP

     
     @strypey AP was a delicate balance of getting something out the other side of the process at all, that's why there are gaps. It was close enough that we almost didn't get an AP Recommendation. 😐

     My guess as an interested outsider is that Nomadic identity would have generated even more discussion and delayed Mastodon's implementation by months or a year.

     @smallcircles @rolle @wrigleyfield @PavelVoronezh

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:49 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield
     To some degree it's a chicken and egg situation. Once more people and institutions get interested in the potential of the fediverse, it will get easier to access the resources needed to improve the technologies and do more active community-building. But it's hard to get well-resourced people and institutions to take the fediverse seriously until the technology and organisation improves : /

     (2/2)

     @rolle

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:50 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield
     > I really want this place to work but I’ve had a lot of challenge getting anywhere near the same level of interesting exchange here

     I'm sorry to hear that, good on you for sticking with it.

     > It’s so hard to find the posts I want too!

     As you might have guessed, I have suggestions. But before I offer any, I want to check you're not always overloaded with them from other well-meaning over-sharers : )

     (1/2)

     @rolle

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:52 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @rolle Thanks!! This is a SUPER useful tip!

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:54 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield
     > I think I might have better search on a different instance

     You can do tag searches on other instances without having to up sticks and leave yours. On a Mastodon instance, just add "tags" and the term you want to search to its URL, like

     https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/tags/music

     It's an ugly hack, and we need to come up with ways to make the verse more searchable, while respecting the needs of folks nervous about being found by dragnet style search tools. But as a stopgap, it works.

     @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:55 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey

     @strypey @rolle Suggestions welcome; thanks for asking! I know about following hashtags and stuff like that. I think I might have better search on a different instance (I otherwise like mine) but I’d be bummed to lose my posts.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:57 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Eddie Hunsinger

     @edyhsgr
     There's a strong parallel here with the Open Access movement. Both academic publishing and social media have a collective action problem. The only way to solve it is collectively. So far, the fediverse movement mostly relies on 'if you build it they will come'. We haven't had resources to do much more. But growing the verse from a network of experimenters, to the mainstream public utility it has the potential to be, will require organising and lots of it.

     (4/4)

     @wrigleyfield @rolle

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:30:59 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Eddie Hunsinger

     @edyhsgr
     * talk about the verse at conferences, meetups, and other in-person events where people from your discipline gather. Explain what makes it fundamentally different from Titter and other DataFarms, or centralised replacements like CoHost or Minds. Offer to help people make the switch.

     * write articles for journals and other media popular in your discipline, doing the above.

     * give feedback to devs about how the software could meet the needs of your people

     (3/?)

     @wrigleyfield @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:31:00 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Eddie Hunsinger

     @edyhsgr @wrigleyfield
     Some ideas OTTOMH:

     * actively shoulder-tap people, tell them how their posts help you meet your needs, and that you'd love to follow them in a network that's not owned and controlled by a single corporation

     * write a brief guide to making the transition. Targeted at the specific needs and interests of people who make up the slice of Titter you want to recreate here. Share it widely with them, on Titter, and through other channels where they can be found

     (2/?)

     @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:31:01 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Eddie Hunsinger

     @edyhsgr @wrigleyfield
     > I've been crossing my fingers that PopTwitter in particular will have a few more key "migrations"

     Please read this as a general suggestion, not a criticism of the two of you (or anyone else). But...

     There's more you can do than crossing your fingers. I find it really helps to reframe the fediverse as a special case of community organisation, rather than merely a "platform"(1).

     (1/?)

     (1) a hand-wavey term I've always been uncomfortable with

     @rolle

   • Embed this notice
     Eddie Hunsinger (edyhsgr@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:31:04 JST Eddie Hunsinger

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @wrigleyfield @strypey @rolle
     I've been crossing my fingers that #PopTwitter in particular will have a few more key "migrations" because I worry key ppl like you (@wrigleyfield - several others too, Beth Jarosz, Carl Schmertmann, Hugo Macedo, Philip Cohen...) will move on if not! I esp like aspects of just posting out to nowhere, but also I think it could be so great for *demography* to have a stronger comm network here on Mastodon, which seems to have better mission and connection to the Web.

   • Embed this notice
     Eddie Hunsinger (edyhsgr@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:31:06 JST Eddie Hunsinger

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     @strypey I hear you, and appreciate, will remember and consider, these thoughts/comments!
     @wrigleyfield @rolle

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Elizabeth Wrigley-Field (wrigleyfield@fediscience.org)'s status on Monday, 31-Jul-2023 18:31:07 JST Elizabeth Wrigley-Field

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • Eddie Hunsinger

     @strypey

     The main thing I’ve been doing in this regard is trying to get my institutions (my pop center and department; another good goal would be our various professional orgs) to set up accounts here, even if it’s just a mirror of their Twitter at the moment. The lack of our institutions here seems highly relevant to whether the network can become dense enough.

     @edyhsgr @rolle

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Aug-2023 02:18:38 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Strypey
     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul

     @strypey The CG is supposed to maintain and extend the spec after the WG closed, but it has been difficult to get energy into it.

     With confs and things picking up in the last two years, maybe things are starting to happen. There is an extension governance system in place now and some early proposals, but I'm not following how discussions are doing.

     There are certainly more active implementers than ever, so a lively CG is increasingly likely.

     @smallcircles @rolle @wrigleyfield @PavelVoronezh

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 01-Aug-2023 02:18:40 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • clacke
     • just small circles 🕊
     • Elizabeth Wrigley-Field
     • Paul

     @clacke
     > that's why there are gaps. It was close enough that we almost didn't get an AP Recommendation

     Ae, now I remember CWebber's write-up making that point.

     > My guess... is that Nomadic identity would have generated even more discussion and delayed Mastodon's implementation by months or a year

     Fair enough, but why not immediately seek a charter to start the process of filling those gaps? Either with an updated version of AP, or ...

     @smallcircles @rolle @wrigleyfield @PavelVoronezh