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  1. Embed this notice
    Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 19:58:54 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan

    State of the Web, circa 2023:

    “Would you like to use the browser by Company X, or the browser by the company that survives on half-a-billion dollars a year from Company X, or the browser by the company that gets paid an estimated $20 billion a year by Company X even though it can survive without it if it wanted to?”

    We desperately a web browser – by an independent organisation funded by EU taxpayer money – maintained for the common good.

    #web #Chrome #Firefox #Safari #Google #Mozilla #Apple

    In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 19:58:54 JST from mastodon.ar.al permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Curious Carrot (curious_carrot@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:21:34 JST Curious Carrot Curious Carrot
      in reply to

      @aral

      OMG, yes!!!

      Who do you think would be the best suited to fulfill this role?

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:21:34 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:21:34 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Curious Carrot

      @curious_carrot I don’t know but it would be good if we could filter out the right libertarians and the crypto bros for a start.

      Instead of any one person being the figurehead, it would also be a good opportunity to use a flat structure and democratic decision making.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:21:34 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:29:22 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • jtb

      @jtb Cookie notices are the fault of willful and malicious interpretation of GDPR by surveillance capitalists, not the EU. The fact that we have a greater degree of privacy in the EU is thanks to the EU (which is in no way perfect, not by a long shot).

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:29:22 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      jtb (jtb@toot.wales)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:29:24 JST jtb jtb
      in reply to

      @aral No, not funded by the EU, it will just go on and on about cookies and nothing else. #eucookiemonster

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:29:24 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Fabien (fabienmarry@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:32:19 JST Fabien Fabien
      in reply to

      @aral * note: Company X, not the X company.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:32:19 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:32:19 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Fabien

      @fabienmarry Indeed.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 20:32:19 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:11:44 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Alex McKenna

      @alexmckenna No, it’s not. It’s core is. But that’s not the problem. Company X using its monopoly position to dictate standards is.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:11:44 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Alex McKenna (alexmckenna@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:11:45 JST Alex McKenna Alex McKenna
      in reply to

      @aral Isn't the browser of Company X already open source?

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:11:45 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:40:39 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Patricia Aas
      • Tim Panton

      @steely_glint @Patricia We don’t need a few million subscribers, we have 447 million taxpayers.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:40:39 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Tim Panton (steely_glint@chaos.social)'s status on Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:40:41 JST Tim Panton Tim Panton
      in reply to
      • Patricia Aas

      @aral This is exactly the conversation I had with @Patricia a while back https://distributedfutu.re/episode68.html
      If I remember correctly maintaining a subscription based fork of either is a Multi million a year commitment - but that just means you need a few million subscribers.

      In conversation Tuesday, 25-Jul-2023 21:40:41 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: distributedfutu.re
        Distributed Future - a podcast
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 02:10:12 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Kramer Peace

      @kpeace Kramer, I take it you’re a right libertarian. I know and understand your philosophy and, quite frankly, life’s too short. Goodbye.

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 02:10:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Kramer Peace (kpeace@liberdon.com)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 02:10:13 JST Kramer Peace Kramer Peace
      in reply to

      @aral
      Historically gov. have done more atrocities than private companies. I trust gov. even less than i trust private corporations.

      The idea that we should force people to pay for something YOU (or me) think as good, is not moral.

      I prefer that it would be done by private companies who allow a high amount of user oversight

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 02:10:13 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      skry (skry@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:02:52 JST skry skry
      in reply to

      @aral The two browsers I’ve been watching:

      Orion (WebKit) is open sourcing soon. So far only a Mac version though. https://blog.kagi.com/orion-features

      Arc (Chromium) is Mac today, Windows soon, and seems like it’s made by good folks. https://arc.net/

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:02:52 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: arc.net
        Arc from The Browser Company
        from @thebrowsercompany
        Experience a calmer, more personal internet in this browser designed for you. Let go of the clicks, the clutter, the distractions.

    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:02:52 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • skry

      @skry I don’t know about kagi/Orion (apart from it’s based in Silicon Valley by a guy who used to work at GoDaddy) but Arc is VC-funded: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/the-browser-company

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:02:52 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: images.crunchbase.com
        The Browser Company - Crunchbase Company Profile & Funding
        Building Arc — a better way to use the internet.
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:57:15 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Xavi

      @xavi92 I like this. My only addition would be that the browser manages “identities” for people so that Small Web places can communicate with each other via end-to-end encrypted messages.

      Without controlling the browser that functionality requires JavaScript currently.

      Otherwise, without JavaScript how do you propose ajax-style updates? With a declarative extension to HTML (eg., the functionality of htmx baked in, perhaps?)

      …

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:57:15 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Xavi (xavi92@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:57:16 JST Xavi Xavi
      in reply to

      @aral The problem with the modern web is the utter complexity that causes hundreds of millions of dollars being spent on its development. We the community must ignore the "open web" specifications dictated by trillion-dollar corporations, and focus on a sane and stable subset that can be easily implemented by the community.

      I had already suggested this very same proposal some time ago: https://xavi.privatedns.org/blog/small-web-browser/

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 15:57:16 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        The Small Web Browser, an inclusive proposal
        Background Almost a year ago, I had some ideas floating around about an alternative to the world wide web, where native executables were downloaded from servers, rather than a mix of HTML, CSS and JS. However, such alternative did not put any care to one of the (IMHO) most serious concerns with the current world wide web: user privacy. Gemini, on the other hand, preferred to design everything from scratch, effectively excluding web content from Gemini, and vice versa.
    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 16:00:23 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Xavi

      @xavi92 … Although there are lots of tiny experience improvements that are currently only available via JS: eg., a chat window scrolling to the bottom when new messages are received, etc.

      I guess you could similarly extend HTML to bake common behaviors in but I do feel having a client-side scripting language is a feature, not a bug. Especially since it can be used by the community to create the cow paths that get paved declaratively layer on.

      So, yeah, I love the idea, though.

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 16:00:23 JST permalink

      Attachments


    • Embed this notice
      Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 19:45:09 JST Aral Balkan Aral Balkan
      in reply to
      • Xavi

      @xavi92 Thing is, unless we have identities (e.g. you have your own secret key that you can use to communicate with other Small Web places privately), we’re not solving the issue of privacy on the web. So if we want to attempt to solve that (which I do), we either need JavaScript (so secrets can be generated on the client) or extensions. I agree with you that compatibility with existing browsers is essential (or else, like you said, there’s Gemini) so I feel we need (a subset of, at least) JS.

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 19:45:09 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Xavi (xavi92@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 19:45:10 JST Xavi Xavi
      in reply to

      @aral OTOH I feel a lot can be already accomplished with HTML5 and CSS. Extensions are interesting, but I think compatibility with existing web browsers (i.e., small web sites are still accessible from common web browsers) is key for adoption. Otherwise, it might face a similar situation to Gemini, which made itself effectively incompatible with everything else, now becoming a niche protocol.

      In conversation Wednesday, 26-Jul-2023 19:45:10 JST permalink

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