Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified: (dotardted@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Wednesday, 19-Jul-2023 11:58:56 JST DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified:

   . #dNews #News #funny #dIrony

   Right or Wrong?

   🤔

   • Seahorses are horses likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     🌲-alist (threalist@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:36 JST 🌲-alist

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     "Right" and "left" really are nearly meaningless and nebulous adjectives and seem to serve two purposes:
     
     1. End conversations about what is important.
     
     2. Put everyone into red team vs blue team buckets to fight endlessly.
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:37 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     Even conservative versus progressive in that era wasn't necessarily so simple.
     
     The Puritans were a new and quite different sect of christianity, so the conservative bet would have been to go with the Anglican Church that had existed for sometime at that point, and the really conservative bet would have been to go with the Roman Catholic Church which had existed for a millennium and had massive political power at that point.
     
     Now, on the other hand the Puritans also represented an attempt to return to a more pure morality that wasn't held up by the current institutions of the churches in europe,. So in that sense they were more conservative, but it just goes to show you that it's a complicated and multifaceted discussion.
     
     If we even go back 100 years, we think that we can relate those people to the present day, but the devil's in the details, and I think that most people on both sides of political spectrum might be shocked to discover just how different those people were than us. Their entire way of living was different. Things that we consider to be just the way of the world were completely alien for the way those people thought back then. 100 years ago, so-called progressives of the time believed in eugenics, something today we consider overwhelmingly taboo. The father of Canadian public healthcare, Tommy Douglas, was a strong proponent of eugenics.
     
     Corporations as we conceive of them today were just on the cusp of existing around the 1600s. Imagine a world so alien that the modern conception of the corporation which has become one of the biggest things that we are constantly talking about it didn't even exist. Not to mention other things such as income taxes, modern police forces, healthcare that wasn't insane and based on 2000 year old false theories from the Greeks...
     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:38 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     • sj_zero
     • Quentin

     @sj_zero @DotardTed @Quentin

     for sure left and right have less meaning than conservative vs progressive, but I think those impulses are consistent. moreso depends on which side is the establishment at a given time.

   • Embed this notice
     sj_zero (sj_zero@social.fbxl.net)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:39 JST sj_zero

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     Are you sure that you can apply modern standards of left or right wing to the late 1600s? It seems that as you go that far back and you apply postmodern views to enlightenment era events, you end up with a lens distorted by the events that came since.
   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:40 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     • Quentin

     @Quentin @DotardTed

     I think there's good in both impulses, the problem is going too far. Here's an example of RW extremism imo:

   • Embed this notice
     quentin@noagendasocial.com's status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:41 JST Quentin

     in reply to

     • william.maggos

     @wjmaggos @DotardTed

     What is right wing indoctrination?

     Don't hit other people and don't take their stuff ??

   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:26:42 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     @DotardTed

     "without left-wing indoctrination"

     are you ok with right-wing indoctrination? most people don't want any indoctrination so when you single out the left, it implies you're further right than most people. and since most people are slightly right or slightly left, you're farther right than most right-wing people.

     but whatever. all these terms are unnecessarily divisive. just please don't claim the mainstream are the only ones playing this game.

   • Embed this notice
     quentin@noagendasocial.com's status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:29:15 JST Quentin

     in reply to

     • william.maggos

     @wjmaggos @DotardTed

     The state having a kangaroo trial of some dingbats (or geniuses) is right wing?

   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:29:15 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     • Quentin

     @Quentin @DotardTed

     yes. conservatives get very concerned about the loss of traditional values in culture, even if it doesn't harm others directly. that's a key difference between them and libertarians. progressives can be anti tradition if that has treated some poorly or unfairly.

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 00:38:13 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @wjmaggos @Quentin @DotardTed The key challenge is one man's harm is another man's safety. I agree that progressives are motivated by injustice, but I believe they're more likely to miss other factors as said motivation can lead to target fixation. It's not a dig at progressives either; the desire to end injustice is noble and many of them have a very strong passion for this. Regrettably, it's abused by those in power for nefarious reasons, much like the conservative desire to protect tradition.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:08:51 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @wjmaggos @Quentin @DotardTed Are you familiar with Jonathan Haidt? He's done a lot on this topic. People get mad at him for what he publishes, but I've yet to see much of any refutation.
   • Embed this notice
     DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified: (dotardted@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:13:35 JST DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified:

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin

     @wjmaggos @Quentin
     @BowsacNoodle> Jonathan Haidt

     Oh yes, he has great ideas on education and heterodoxy!

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:14:40 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin Quite good work on a lot of areas that aren't taboo to study, but taboo to draw conclusions from, if that makes sense.
   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:16:29 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Quentin

     @BowsacNoodle @DotardTed @Quentin

     yes, posted this today. I like him a lot. read Righteous Mind.

     https://liberal.city/@wjmaggos/110741342029681829

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:21:46 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin That for sure. His broader work on the sociopolitical and framing (righteous mind) is quite a lot more determinist than modern liberalism is comfortable with. It's a good communication is a two-way street between message and recipient, but unfortunately it'll be ignored or used to reinforce absolutist determinism before anyone with power would consider the more pragmatic approach.
   • Embed this notice
     DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified: (dotardted@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:21:47 JST DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified:

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin

     @BowsacNoodle @wjmaggos @Quentin

     The sad reality of modern education, your study can come to any conclusion, as long as it fits the narrative?

   • Embed this notice
     william.maggos (wjmaggos@liberal.city)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:23:03 JST william.maggos

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • Quentin

     @DotardTed @BowsacNoodle @Quentin

     the struggle is always do we engage in good faith with our best criticism. sadly that seems less likely today. oh and is there a public that expects that. I think we could fix it, especially with a more decentralized media. there's a power in intellectual integrity that can overcome all but the strongest propagandistic methods, I hope.

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:34:27 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @wjmaggos @DotardTed @Quentin I hope so, but this is one area I'm not too optimistic on. There's at least two generations who believe all their political enemies always argue in bad faith. Intellectual integrity barely exists as well, particularly when uncomfortable ideas are so easily no-platormed which artificially narrows the window of discourse. Then we have the replication crisis and its follies — how many billions of dollars were spent on b-amyloid plaque research only to realize the original source was fabricated data? We have to be honest with ourselves in the way we approach research — do we ACTUALLY value truth, or is consensus more important? Should "scientific consensus" be an arbiter given that truth is indifferent to our collective agreements? Do we care about the source of funding and the exclusion of data to manipulate results, and do we actually care about negative results of hypothesis the way science suggests we should?
   • Embed this notice
     DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified: (dotardted@noagendasocial.com)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:52:01 JST DotardTed 🇺🇸 :verified:

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin

     @BowsacNoodle @wjmaggos @Quentin

     That there might be anything "taboo" in education is a paradox in itself. Proving there is an overriding dogma that restricts free thought to the accepted conclusions.

     Shameful!

     BowserNoodle ☦️ likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:54:55 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin The Cold War really did a number on us. Innate characteristics, even as benign as a conservative or liberal slant, are too close to Eugenics for neoliberalism. No reasonable person would suggest culling people for their slight genetic predisposition to a political outlook, of course, but that's a slippery slope people would rather avoid treading near.
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:58:59 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • white_male
     • Quentin
     @white_male @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin There's a whole host of people who can now vote who probably would advocate for genocide on that genetic marker, if it exists. I said reasonable person though.
   • Embed this notice
     white_male (white_male@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 02:59:00 JST white_male

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @BowsacNoodle @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin >culling people for their slight genetic predisposition to a political outlook
     Woman question?
   • Embed this notice
     white_male (white_male@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 03:05:18 JST white_male

     in reply to

     • BowserNoodle ☦️
     • william.maggos
     • Quentin
     @BowsacNoodle @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin Try to raise that question in polite circles. ;]
   • Embed this notice
     BowserNoodle ☦️ (bowsacnoodle@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 20-Jul-2023 03:05:18 JST BowserNoodle ☦️

     in reply to

     • william.maggos
     • white_male
     • Quentin
     @white_male @DotardTed @wjmaggos @Quentin I have a lot of people who could have that honest conversation with me, but most of them would balk at the idea.