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lamp (lamp@berserker.town)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:56 JST lamp
@Sui @Humpleupagus @CatLord @malakai Hot women get you hard, do you go rape them on the street?

In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:56 JST from berserker.town permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:52 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
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  > You have no right to protect yourself until you get shot. Until then, it's just ideas, man.
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:52 JST permalink
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  Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:53 JST Deplorable Degenerate
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  @lamp @CatLord @Sui @Humpleupagus @malakai Yeah but if I am not actually going to violently rape you to death and only fantasize about doing it that's fine. It is also fine if I move in across the street from you and stare at you every time you leave your domicile regardless of the hour of the day, unblinking, unmoving. Who cares if I have drawings upon drawings of you being tortured, flesh torn and blood weeping from your wounds. ItS jUsT fAnTaSy
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:53 JST permalink
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  lamp (lamp@berserker.town)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:53 JST lamp
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  @Deplorable_Degenerate @Sui @Humpleupagus @CatLord @malakai That is fine. As long as you don't do it.
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:53 JST permalink
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  lamp (lamp@berserker.town)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:54 JST lamp
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  @CatLord @Sui @Humpleupagus @malakai No rape is bad.
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:54 JST permalink
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  DM me cats :nv: (catlord@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:55 JST DM me cats :nv:
  in reply to
  @lamp @Sui @Humpleupagus @malakai Do you masturbate to women getting raped too?
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:06:55 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:15:13 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  That's a great idea. 😏
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:15:13 JST permalink
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  Deplorable Degenerate (deplorable_degenerate@poa.st)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:15:14 JST Deplorable Degenerate
  in reply to
  @lamp @Sui @Humpleupagus @CatLord @malakai Cool. Lets go camping.
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:15:14 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:45:03 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
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  I'm just trying to point out that at law we prosecute all sorts of crimes on the basis that they have a nexus or proximity to the ultimate harm to be avoided (e.g. blood alcohol limits and driving, possession with intent to distribute, which can be inferred from the quantity alone in some states), and it could be argued that in many cases, many of the people convicted wouldn't have actually committed the ultimate harm.
  
  One purpose of prosecution of proximity / nexus crimes is deterrence of the behavior in society writ large for the protection of society and/or some of its members from the ultimate harm. What's a sufficient proximity or nexus is up to the state and/or people to determine.
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:45:03 JST permalink
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  lamp (lamp@berserker.town)'s status on Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:45:04 JST lamp
  in reply to
  @Humpleupagus @Sui @CatLord @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai I see your point... you're the only one who's helped me understand the controversy.
  I guess it's a difficult issue. On one hand, it is possible for a pedophile to escalate to real harm, but on the other hand, I feel like there's a lot of pedophiles who would never do such a thing, and then that argument applies in reverse: imagine someone is plotting to murder you because they think you're a pedophile. ☹️
  Another argument is whether or not enjoying of fiction reduces the desire to cause harm or escalates it. I've heard a statistic where child abuse has gone down in Japan while the prevalence of loli/shota content has gone up. But I need to know more about this...
  
  In conversation Friday, 14-Jul-2023 16:45:04 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:14:24 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  You don't have a constitutional right to free speech — fire in a crowded theater, possession of child pornography, antigovernment speech during war time. If society sees it as "bad enough," the constitution won't protect you.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:14:24 JST permalink
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  Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:14:25 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
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  @Humpleupagus @lamp @Sui @CatLord @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai most of those examples don't involve a protected right tho. you have no constitutionally protected right to consume alcohol (as absurd as I think that is). you have no constitutionally protected right to drive a car. etc
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:14:25 JST permalink
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  DM me cats :nv: (catlord@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:17:03 JST DM me cats :nv:
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  @Humpleupagus @roboneko @lamp @Sui @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai who cares about the fucking constitution. it's not like it's what governs america anyway. pedophiles must be removed from society, regardless of whether they intend to hurt kids or not.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:17:03 JST permalink
  
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:19:09 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
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  That's my point though. The people can ultimately legalize the removal of harmful things. The constitution just becomes part of a rhetorical game to support that end.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:19:09 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:23:43 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  And never forget that we put Japanese in camps without the right of habeas corpus. If that's constitutional, whose rights can't be suspended under the right circumstances?
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:23:43 JST permalink
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  DM me cats :nv: (catlord@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:23:44 JST DM me cats :nv:
  in reply to
  @Humpleupagus @roboneko @lamp @Sui @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai ye i know i wasn't contesting, just adding on
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:23:44 JST permalink
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  Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:31:45 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @Humpleupagus @lamp @Sui @CatLord @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai
  
  > You don't have a constitutional right to free speech
  
  :hyperconfused: yes you do. it's just that the court specifically carved out limitations to that right. but it's there in the constitution
  
  I don't see anything inherently wrong with this btw (at least on paper). realistically laws can't be absolute. they have to work "in the real world". so you have your protected right and then the court says "yeah no fraud isn't protected by the first amendment that's not what it's there for" and hopefully the checks and balances keep the courts from completely trashing things
  
  ... and then we end up with the assault weapons ban. because in practice, well, y'know. but regarding many freedoms the situation here still seems noticeably better to me than a lot of other places. not that we don't have our own issues
  
  > fire in a crowded theater
  
  really bad example. would very much depend on surrounding context per current precedent (which superseded the case that quote comes from)
  
  > possession of child pornography
  
  yup. the obscenity laws. ridiculous imo. it is what it is
  
  > antigovernment speech during war time
  
  this ... actually makes a fair amount of sense? at least on paper. just like special "state of emergency" powers. I'm sure those will never be abused :blobcatgooglytrash:
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:31:45 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:31:45 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  But it proves my point. When it is believed that there is a nexus between certain acts and ultimate harms, the pre-ultimate harm acts can be outlawed, and the constitution isn't going to save you where there is sufficient political will.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:31:45 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:39:34 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
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  That's all it's ever been though.
  
  Go read Marbury v. Madison, the most cited case is American Jurisprudence, and ask yourself, who wrote the opinion and who failed to deliver the commission in issue? Hint: They're the same person.
  
  See also FDR's court packing plan and the courts sudden shift to federalism.
  
  See also the incorporation doctrine re amendments 1 through 8 and 14.
  
  It's literally all made from whole cloth.
  
  I could go on.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:39:34 JST permalink
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  Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:39:35 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @Humpleupagus @lamp @Sui @CatLord @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai
  
  > The constitution just becomes part of a rhetorical game to support that end.
  
  yeah in practice I'd agree with that. but I don't like it one bit. it's what the current situation has devolved to in many cases but that's not something to brag about
  
  > we put Japanese in camps without the right of habeas corpus. If that's constitutional
  
  :blobconfused: I thought their imprisonment was ultimately ruled to have been unconstitutional?
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:39:35 JST permalink
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  LoliHat (lolihat@varishangout.net)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:41:14 JST LoliHat
  in reply to
  @roboneko @lamp @Sui @Humpleupagus @CatLord @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai
  
  >> possession of child pornography
  
  >yup. the obscenity laws. ridiculous imo. it is what it is
  
  Those are actually not the same thing. In the case of the former, it is illegal because it is furthering a crime outside of the question of speech. In the case of the later, it is a strict 3-pronged test and rarely enforced outside of public showings/readings/&c.
  
  For the most part, it is not the speech being barred, but what it is being used as a tool for. As an analogy, swinging a hammer is legal, but swinging that hammer into a person's skull isn't.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:41:14 JST permalink
  
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  DM me cats :nv: (catlord@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:58 JST DM me cats :nv:
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  @roboneko @lamp @Sui @Humpleupagus @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai >"we can kill people we dislike"
  >great political platform
  
  Yes. Do you know what a government is? That is what they do.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:58 JST permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:58 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  We just use rhetoric to cover up the governments use of its monopoly on violence.
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:58 JST permalink
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  Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko: (roboneko@bae.st)'s status on Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:59 JST Neko McCatface v2023 :verified::makemeneko:
  in reply to
  @CatLord @lamp @Sui @Humpleupagus @Deplorable_Degenerate @malakai
  
  > regardless of whether they intend to hurt kids or not
  
  if they don't intend to hurt kids. so ... not actually posing any danger? or in other words "we can kill people we dislike"
  
  great political platform :blobwoozy:
  
  :soymad: gun nuts must be removed from society regardless of whether they intend to commit a mass shooting or not!
  
  In conversation Monday, 17-Jul-2023 15:46:59 JST permalink

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