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  1. Embed this notice
    mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:20 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:

    Happy #BlackHistoryMonth !

    I hope to get to Black history soon, but I'm still working through white US history. There's so much of it!

    Q: Why are Black people in the US so much more likely to die in traffic accidents than white people? Are Black folk more likely to drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs (DUI)? Is it street racing? Are y'all just bad drivers?

    A: Hmm. I'm stumped! No one knows the answer to why this happens! Just kidding. It's racism. It's always racism.

    #BlackMastodon

    In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:20 JST from hachyderm.io permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:07 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to

      @mekkaokereke

      I want to see motor vehicles taxed by the volume they occupy.

      Multiply the length x breadth x height together, divide by number of seats, charge it annually. (Allow a discount for commercial vehicles that carry freight, but NOT for pickup trucks or vans used for general business, i.e. the dentist driving a tricked-out Ford F150 for the tax break.)

      Such a tax scales as the cube of the vehicle's overall dimensions, so it punishes oversize SUVs and pickups accordingly.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:07 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:08 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      Until the US is safely walkable or bikeable, people will continue to buy urban tanks in self-defense.

      Since my kids were three years old, they've known to raise their hand as high as they can and wave it around whenever they hear a car engine start.

      Some strangers smile and wave back when they see my kids do this. They think it's cute! But it's not really that cute.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:08 JST permalink

      Attachments


      1. https://media.hachyderm.io/media_attachments/files/109/842/695/786/161/322/original/201c7b76b758554e.jpg
      Børge repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:09 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      Again, you'll notice that the word "Black" doesn't appear anywhere in most of these interventions. They're better for all of us.

      People in places like Atlanta are trying to make their city safer for pedestrians and cyclists of all colors. ??

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DFN7fNE8NYQ

      But again, focus on, and understanding of, systemic racism, is necessary to make sure that this benefit is enjoyed by everyone.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tycWtaejktA

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:09 JST permalink
      GreenSkyOverMe (Monika) and Blaise Pabón - controlpl4n3 repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:10 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      We can reverse many of these harms just by letting Black people vote. Then we get rid of the racist politicians and replace them with ones who will:

      * Build safer bike infrastructure for everyone

      * In particular, build infra that lets kids walk or bike to school and back safely

      * Build towns and cities for humans, not cars

      * Have a higher safety bar for self-driving cars than what that dude is getting away with

      * Incentivize smaller cars / no cars. E-bikes over E-cars.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:10 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:11 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      "But won't self driving cars make all this safer?"

      Again, not without addressing the racism.

      https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/3/5/18251924/self-driving-car-racial-bias-study-autonomous-vehicle-dark-skin

      This is another example of a common Machine Learning paradox: many ML systems are trained on datasets with not enough Black folk, and don't consider Black folk in the use cases, but those ML systems are used on Black communities. The harm is concentrated on us. ??

      Yes, this is another reason that the fake genius that rushed to put FSD on the road is a terrible human.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:11 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: cdn.vox-cdn.com
        Study finds a potential risk with self-driving cars: failure to detect dark-skinned pedestrians
        from https://www.facebook.com/sigalsamuelauthor/
        The findings speak to a bigger problem in the development of automated systems: algorithmic bias.
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:12 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      There aren't that many intentional racists trying to run over Black kids. Each incident is terrible, but fortunately, they are extremely rare. Unfortunately, there are very many unintentionally racist people buzzing Black people in crosswalks.

      White drivers in the US are *seven times* more likely to buzz past a Black pedestrian in the crosswalk than a white pedestrian. Sometimes this goes horribly wrong. Sometimes what looks like one pedestrian, is two pedestrians.

      https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-pedestrians-race-20170322-story.html

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:13 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      Florida passed their version of the law along with a change describing a riot as 3 people. Truly evil stuff.

      https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police

      Similar laws have passed in several states with racist state legislatures. These laws were largely passed in a backlash response to Black Lives Matter protests.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:13 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:14 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      There are several horrific incidents of "racist person gets really drunk and intentionally runs over Black children." Each one of these is awful, but fortunately, this isn't a widespread phenomenon. But... Some racist politicians want it to be. Seriously.

      Several states recently passed laws decriminalizing driving a car into a crowd of "rioting" people and running them over.

      No, I am not joking.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:14 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        over.no
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:15 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      And Black drivers that survive a bad crash, are often concussed and disoriented. First responders to a crash, are often police. I don't need to go much further into explaining what happens when an injured Black driver needing assistance encounters a typical cop, other than to say the motorist is as likely to get a taser as a tourniquet.

      ? Maybe we should try making cops second responders instead of first responders...

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:15 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:16 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      In Chicago, fewer than 4% of DUI checkpoints are in majority white neighborhoods, but 25% of drunk driving accidents are in white neighborhoods. ??

      In California, fewer than 1% of drunk driving arrests come from checkpoints.??♂️

      Cops are using DUI checkpoints as an excuse to stop Black drivers, then searching them and arresting them for other things. Because policing in America. Because racism.

      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9133.12558

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:16 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:17 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      But what about DUIs? Drunk drivers are bad and should be stopped. DUI checkpoints are an invasion of privacy, but at least they're effective at catching drunk drivers, right?

      1. DUI checkpoints are supposed to catch drunk drivers
      2. Black drivers are *less* likely to be DUI than white drivers?
      3. But DUI checkpoints are run by cops, who are incentivized to arrest Black people
      4. So DUI checkpoints are disproportionately located in Black neighborhoods ??♂️
      5. So they catch very few drunk drivers.?

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:17 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:18 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      SUVs versus cyclists doesn't get much better. Again, this is an issue that affects Americans of all colors. But lack of safe cycling infrastructure means that places where Black people bike, tend to be significantly more dangerous than places where white people bike.

      Per mile traveled, a Black cyclist is 4.5 times more likely to be killed than a white cyclist.

      https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(22)00155-6/fulltext

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:18 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      mekka okereke :verified: (mekkaokereke@hachyderm.io)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:19 JST mekka okereke :verified: mekka okereke :verified:
      in reply to

      A big portion of US traffic deaths are "SUV vs anything." "Anything" can be a smaller car, a cyclist, or a pedestrian.

      Because of the systemically racist way that US infrastructure has been built, "SUV vs pedestrian" strikes are disproportionately likely to involve a white driver and Black child pedestrian. White SUVs drive in places where Black kids walk.

      This affects people of all colors, but the most dangerous way to be a pedestrian in the US *by far*, is to be a Black child aged 4 to 15.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:16:19 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:10 JST Børge Børge
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • The War on Cars
      • Chris Adams
      • Daniel Barlow

      @cstross I really feel like @TheWarOnCars should have a chat with you about this and the tax issue, etc :)

      @acdha @dan @mekkaokereke

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:10 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:11 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • Chris Adams
      • Daniel Barlow

      @acdha @dan @mekkaokereke It seems to me that the way all cars—and SUVs in particular—are marketed and advertised is screaming for in-depth study and legal regulation. Not just the unrealistic content of ads (freedom! open roads! happy laughing couples out for a drive!) but stuff like the hyper-aggressive frontal styling of GM's trucks and SUVs. It's an area where "freedom of speech" for vehicle manufacturers blurs into them encouraging mass vehicular homicide.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:11 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Chris Adams (acdha@thepit.social)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:17 JST Chris Adams Chris Adams
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • Daniel Barlow

      @cstross @dan @mekkaokereke yeah, I’d only accept that if the vehicle was equipped with an automatic braking system which can’t be disabled and the manufacturer accepts all liability. Until that’s technically possible, we have to assume average SUV driver behavior.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:17 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:18 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • Daniel Barlow

      @dan @mekkaokereke The problem with "dynamic envelope" is that it assumes the driver is able or willing to stop. An SUV with insane braking performance would get a break here that the psychology of the sort of people who buy such a vehicle doesn't really justify.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:18 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Daniel Barlow (dan@brvt.telent.net)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:29 JST Daniel Barlow Daniel Barlow
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross @mekkaokereke how about taxing by “dynamic envelope”: the size of the vehicle plus the area around it such that it can stop safely from whatever speeds it usually travels at. I’ll cross the road in front of a moped in circumstances where I might hold back if the oncoming vehicle is a Fireblade, so let’s represent that “plays nice with other road users” externality in the taxation

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:19:29 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:10 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • GreenFire
      • Eʟʟ

      @c9a @GreenFire

      Car culture kills.

      It causes carnage directly by maiming and killing people in crashes/impacts.

      It caused immense diffuse damage historically through lead-induced brain damage (thankfully this is gradually leaving us).

      It causes less obvious environmental damage by turning huge amounts of land into roads and parking lots and rendering our human built environment difficult to navigate on foot or by other forms of transport.

      Cars are a social disease.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:10 JST permalink

      Attachments

      1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
        http://kills.It/
    • Embed this notice
      Eʟʟ (c9a@cathode.church)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:11 JST Eʟʟ Eʟʟ
      in reply to
      • GreenFire
      • Charlie Stross

      @GreenFire @cstross I think it's still a complicating factor if your main concern is along the lines of OP's thread, namely impact on visibility and the knock-on effects on walkability/bikeability/pedestrian collisions.

      But yes, if you're mostly concerned about road damage then mass is clearly a better criteria. Different concerns, different criteria.

      I should also make clear I am certainly not trying to defend EVs for their own sake here: the Model 3 in particular brings up its own issues around walkability with its "self-driving" systems and that mass still makes a difference.

      Additionally, I think EVs in some ways are a poison pill that enables us to blissfully perpetuate car culture while pushing our environmental costs downstream into places like far away lithium mines.

      But the bit that was pertinent to this thread is that they're also a prominent exception to "vehicle mass scales with volume", ha.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:11 JST permalink
      Børge repeated this.
    • Embed this notice
      greenfire@climatejustice.social's status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:12 JST GreenFire GreenFire
      in reply to
      • Eʟʟ
      • Charlie Stross

      @c9a @cstross
      IMO, that's not a complicating factor. Weight is what causes road damage so it should be taxed whether EV or ICEV. That might help Americans to consider that they don't need a battery big enough to get them from New York to Florida without charging.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:12 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Eʟʟ (c9a@cathode.church)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:13 JST Eʟʟ Eʟʟ
      in reply to
      • GreenFire
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross @GreenFire Taking this thread even further afield: one complicating factor here is electric cars, battery packs are heavy!

      From some quick math, the Tesla Model 3 has an envelope of 12.5m^3 but has a curb weight of nearly 1840kg. For comparison, the BMW X3 is 15m^3 and 1880kg, which is a 20% bigger envelope but only 2% more mass.

      I've heard (but not verified) that part of the reason Teslas have such good safety reason is simply the fact that they're heavier - they have the inertia of an SUV in a sedan-sized package, so they win the inertia battle more than you would expect, with the bonus of a very low center of gravity.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:13 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      greenfire@climatejustice.social's status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:14 JST GreenFire GreenFire
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross @mekkaokereke
      Mass based vehicle taxes are the way that it should be in this physicist's opinion.

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:14 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:14 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • GreenFire

      @GreenFire @mekkaokereke Vehicle mass scales with volume, and exterior volume is probably easier to measure and tax. So volume is a proxy for mass. (Unless your vehicle is a tank or IFV wearing 10cm of dense armour everywhere.)

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:22:14 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:23:48 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • Børge
      • The War on Cars
      • Chris Adams
      • Daniel Barlow

      @forteller @TheWarOnCars @acdha @dan @mekkaokereke Life is too short: I'm not actually a transport campaigner, I have a novel to be writing!

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:23:48 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:23:48 JST Børge Børge
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • The War on Cars
      • Chris Adams
      • Daniel Barlow

      @cstross I understand. They should read some of your posts aloud and talk about the issues based off of that, then :)

      @TheWarOnCars @acdha @dan @mekkaokereke

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:23:48 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:50:27 JST Børge Børge
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross
      • The War on Cars

      @cstross Best of luck with the novel, btw! I, of course, do not know anything about it, but if it makes any sense at all I'd _love it_ if some of the people in it use (electric) bicycles at any point.

      I don't understand how there's almost never any bikes in scifi (that I'm aware of). How can anyone think we have a livable future without cities filled with bikes? I've started a list of scifi with bikes in them, and so far it's short. :)

      @TheWarOnCars

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 19:50:27 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Børge (forteller@tutoteket.no)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 21:02:00 JST Børge Børge
      in reply to
      • Charlie Stross

      @cstross I see. That might not be the right novel for bikes :D

      Still, in general, I'm thinking that as long as tool making creatures – no matter when, where or who (well, depending on anatomy, I guess) – have a use for resource and energy effective tronsportation, the bicycle will have a place in the universe. Even on (large) space ships. :)

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 21:02:00 JST permalink
    • Embed this notice
      Charlie Stross (cstross@wandering.shop)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 21:02:01 JST Charlie Stross Charlie Stross
      in reply to
      • Børge
      • The War on Cars

      @forteller @TheWarOnCars As it's set two-thirds of a million years in the future, not on a planetary surface, and our species of hominid is long-extinct by then anyway, e-bikes don't make much sense …

      In conversation Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 21:02:01 JST permalink

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