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@dalias @Swedneck @futurebird I don't think having offspring, being the outcome of evolution or being embodied are necessary for intelligence. All intelligent things we have observed so far appear to also have those features, but that's accidental, in my view. Making it true by stipulation that LLMs can't be intelligent doesn't help the case of the LLM critic. "Ok fine if that's how you define intelligence then the AI isn't intelligent, but it's still got all these great helpful properties" is what they'd respond, and we're no further forward. Because the actual argument we should be having is whether LLMs do in fact have these useful desirable properties. And, for the most part, they don't. There's no value to arguing over the abstract question of "intelligence" or "consciousness".