@SuperDicq @crunklord420

> when I hear "drawn CP" I think about material that is designed to look realistic

Some of it is. I forgot his name but there's an (in)famous lolicon hentai mangaka who's been accused of tracing real CSAM. There's a spectrum from highly stylized to realistic.

Of course, once it passes a certain threshold of realistic, it wouldn't be referred to as "lolicon" any more because it wouldn't be in anime style. But that's a further advantage of my terminology: I'm making the arguments I'm making against *all* types of drawn CP, because the common defenses that people use for lolicon could be used for photo-realistic drawings, CGI, and AI-generated material as well: "It's just fantasy, nobody's actually getting hurt, it's just a drawing / CGI / AI-generated pixels..."

> It is very much detached from reality and most fans of the genre know this.

I think this is a form of confirmation bias or a social bubble effect. You subconsciously ignore / avoid or maybe really never come across lolicon guys who show signs of being real pedos, so you assume there is no such problem. In my observation, it is a problem.

I've another story to tell, outside 4chan: This was in the #anime channel on Freenode if I remember correctly. One guy in this channel was living in some third world country or something. Cambodia maybe?? Two regulars of the channel traveled to meet him. I think the guy was a child pimp and they went there for child prostitution, though I've no direct evidence of that. These guys uploaded a photo they took once, from the airport, of a tiny child (maybe around 4) sucking on some toy ball, and made jokes about it. At the time I was still under the mentality of "lolicon isn't bad" so that caused me quite some cognitive dissonance. It was much later that I thought back to that and told myself "yeah, those guys were probably pedos and the other older guy they visited was probably a pimp." I sat in a fucking chat room with those people. Yuck.

> I don't think there's anything I care less about than my posts being understood by fucking Spinster users of all places lmao.

I do. We're discussing the terminology I choose to use. You can continue to call it lolicon hentai, and I'll continue to call it drawn child pornography.

> 4chan does not represent the average otaku and you should definitely know that

It represents a very sizeable portion of it. Even Drew's bookmarks included 4chan boards. I'd say *ignoring* 4chan is brainworms actually, because 4chan has been extremely influential on Internet culture in general.

But like I've said, my observations span outside of 4chan as well.

> Megumin, Victorique, Tsukiko, Konata

Whether these characters are "loli" in the sense of "lolicon" would be debatable I guess. Megumin doesn't look like a loli character at all to me. Tsukiko definitely looks like a lolicon drawing, but she also looks 12 at most. Victorique looks very young and seems to dress in "goth loli" fashion but that's a fashion style and not necessarily related to "lolicon" because the character isn't drawn in an erotic way from what I can tell. Konata also isn't drawn in an erotic way.

Not every character that may be called a "loli" in some way is automatically subject of "lolicon" because the latter term implies that the character is drawn not only to look like a child, but also in an erotic fashion, though sometimes it can be unclear whether the mangaka intended that. (For example, normal people wouldn't see Ichigo Mashimaro characters as erotic in any way, but supposedly the mangaka used to draw lolicon hentai and the characters seem popular among lolicons so I have to assume it was intentional.)

> Oh and speaking of the "she's actually 500" argument, I think it's only fair if this argument goes both ways. If a character is canonically 8 years old but acts like an adult, guess what, they are not really 8 years old.

That's not a valid analogy. The correct version would be:

"If being 500 but having the body of a 10 year-old is bad, then being 10 but having the body of a 500 year-old is OK."

And yes, if a character looks like a withered skeleton while being canonically 10 years old, then I'd say those who find that sexy are not pedos/lolicons but rather necrophiles or something.

If someone exploited a mentally disabled woman who's 30 but has the mental capacity of a 10 year-old I wouldn't call that pedophilia either.