@sim @augustus @lain the only difference is that the war wouldve been less bloody, and the ukrainian people would permanently live in a even MORE corrupt and even worser country, would "we" the west have meddled less, but this war was inevitable solely due to one man's imperialistic decision. Many less immediate instant deaths, but so many more worse lives, lives worse than living in an active warzone. "Our" response is a reaction of self defence against a true first strike.

There's a fucking REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS REASON why 0% OF THE FORMER USSR STATES ARE A PART OF BRICS (belarus not counted due to being, for all intents and purposes, an occupied oblast[see 2022 union state declaration]) and it's not "other economic cooperation organizations gave us better options"

its "I dont want to be genocided AGAIN for the 8th time this century by russia AGAIN."
and despite that, remember, NO sanctions against russia by ANY of the aformentioned countries, and russia was PLEASED to completion by "us" after 2014 with your exact words of "We should give in to russia's needs as they declare"

We did give in
We gave in to georgia (how many times?)
We gave in to Crimea and Donbas regions (for how many years)
we gave in to ignoring certain internal russian tragedies
the collective west, gave in plenty of times in many places in many years in the past 25 years, and every single time we gave in, the next year we had to give in to something bigger. God forbid i mention the full last 35 years. Transnistria, Chechen wars (how many?), Dagestan, the multiple pre-USSR-dissolution genocides, the current selective-genocide of minority peoples in russia. A bilnd eye has been turned many times, and still today some falter: "What if they do something worse if we dont appease them?"

the big mafia's been appeased and this active acute war is purely the result of said appeasement and indecision. And if they get appeased again, guess what happens next? It will NOT BE SATIATION