@lccmv @opphunter88 @NEETzsche @FourOh-LLC Hold up, there. You previously said they were "strong" and now you're agreeing with me that they're shitty, but we're gonna be shittier after some unspecified timeframe. That's moving the goalposts, Son.

I mean, you used as an example the absolute worst cities in America and I used as an example one of the best cities in the Islamic world and we both agree that right here, right now, our worst is better than their best.

Will Portland be shitty forever? Maybe, maybe not. New York was once so bad they made sci-fi movies about escaping it. Then, in the 90's just a few terms of broken windows policing made it nice again.