Jess Mahler
I realized this morning that I may come across as 'trying to have the last word' because (especially in text) it's hard for me to tell when the other person is done with a convo, and I like to talk and don't like to ignore people.
So I keep replying until they stop replying or I need to be done, in which case I say something like 'good talk, I need to go now.' giving is a clear end point.
That got me thinking, so here's a thread on etiquette, social structures, and random bullshit.
whetstone
@jessmahler I love this point. Henry Higgins could *never* have fit into Eliza’s world the way she fit into his.
Jess Mahler
The reality is that informal etiquette is a FAR more effective gatekeeping tool.
Informal etiquette can't be learned except through exposure and experience. You either know it, or you don't. If you don't it immediately sets you apart.
As with Eliza Doolittle, someone who was gatekept out who go access to lessons and tools could bypass the gatekeeping of elitist formal etiquette. There is no bypassing the gatekeeping of informal etiquette.
Jess Mahler
It's also true that those assholes have long used their overly-complicated forms of etiquette as a gatekeeping tool, by developing forms of etiquette that require time, money, or extensive support systems not available without money or connections to maintain.
But what makes it a formal etiquette isn't the gatekeeping aspect -- it's that it's a form of etiquette with clear forms and structure which can be written down and taught.
Jess Mahler
In the US especially (though it seems to me international English-speaking spaces, probably driven by US dominance?) there has been a steady erosion of 'formality' and 'formal' etiquette, and a shift toward informal-everything. And as a neurodivergent person with 'social deficits' this has long driven me crazy
There seems to be an idea that formal etiquette=the etiquette of the rich/elite/ruling class. And it's true that the most commonly recognized formal etiquette is just that
whetstone
@jessmahler It reminds me a bit of the explanation I saw for why Japan has so many distinctive local dialects. I haven’t studied the history but supposedly it was an intentional choice to ferret out outsiders.
I think that AAVE has something in common with that too, a dialect constructed to create shelter from outsiders who might know (most of) the words but not the cultural context or meaning.
whetstone
Yeah. Like many powerful tools, in group/out group dynamics cut both ways. Exclusion for protection is valid and necessary, but unfortunately I think human psychology makes it somewhat pleasant to act like a dick if by so-doing you can cement the “we-ness” of a group by imposing “you-ness” on an outsider.
Good reminder for me to think about the *why* of exclusion when I notice these behaviors in myself.
Jess Mahler
@whetstone
That's a very good point, and that kind of gatekeeping informal etiquette provides has served many positive benefits to oppressed and minority groups.
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