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1. Embed this notice
   Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:17 JST Velocipede Rider

   • Chris Trottier
   • Billy Smith
   • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

   @BillySmith @atomicpoet @stephan

   Well we (I work for Vivaldi) have offered many of the other services entirely for free for 8+ years.

   As for walled garden, the point of joining the fediverse was to move away for being considered a walled garden.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:05 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @BillySmith @stephan I believe the possibilities for the Fediverse are immense. At the browser level, you can build some incredible innovations.

     Honestly, the fact that you are a small team gives you incredible opportunities.

     GENKI repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:06 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @BillySmith @atomicpoet @stephan Well we are a small team and move fast… maybe sometimes too fast.

     This is the entire company. We have some volunteers who help with things like testing and moderation but we are not highly structured.

     https://vivaldi.com/team/

     GENKI repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     Billy Smith (billysmith@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:07 JST Billy Smith

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @atomicpoet @stephan

     In that situation, it's usually better to call it a Live-Beta, and prepare to receive a lot of feedback. :D

   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:08 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @atomicpoet @BillySmith @stephan Perhaps but indeed I think it is fair that we make it easy for those who already use our services.

     This is not to saw we want to intentionally make it bad for others. It should be easy for everyone.

     But we hooked this into our signup process in less than a week, if it does not work perfectly well those are probably bugs. Hanlon's razor and all.

   • Embed this notice
     Chris Trottier (atomicpoet@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:09 JST Chris Trottier

     in reply to

     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @BillySmith @stephan Some feedback:

     The sign-up process is good for people who currently use Vivaldi, and now want to jump into the Fediverse.

     It's not so good for people who currently use Mastodon and are new to Vivaldi.

   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:10 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @BillySmith @atomicpoet @stephan

     Difficulties in sign up are difficulties in sign up. Creating a Vivaldi account is because our login for all our services is single sign on. This also makes it easier for a user who already uses Vivaldi to create a Mastodon account, e.g. if they made a sync account, they can login with that to our instance and a mastodon account will be created on the fly.

     This is why we changed the login. To allow for the possiblity of easir sign up for our users.

   • Embed this notice
     Billy Smith (billysmith@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:11 JST Billy Smith

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @atomicpoet @stephan

     The basic principles:

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern

     A larger breakdown:

     https://www.shopify.com/partners/blog/dark-patterns

     For example, the sign-in difficulties shown above:

     https://social.coop/@atomicpoet@mastodon.social/109473890149969038

     They may just be related to a design issue, but they can also be attributed to potential bait'n'switch tactics.

     ( Yes, i did read the T&C's as well as the Privacy Policy, but those include the right for them to be changed unilaterally by your company. )

   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:12 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @BillySmith @atomicpoet @stephan What do you mean? Please expand on what you see as the "Dark Pattern approach". Honest question as I do not think I am following what you imply here.

   • Embed this notice
     Billy Smith (billysmith@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:13 JST Billy Smith

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @atomicpoet @stephan

     Excellent! :D

     It's always good to see success in a company owned and run by techies. :D

     Please change the Dark Pattern approach.

     It isn't worthy of your ideals. :D

   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:14 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @BillySmith @atomicpoet @stephan The company is employee owned and will not be floated on the stock market, Jon (the Opera founder and our founder) already got burnt on that once. It will not happen again.

     P.S. I am an employee in case that was not clear.

   • Embed this notice
     Billy Smith (billysmith@social.coop)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 07:30:15 JST Billy Smith

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @ruari @atomicpoet @stephan

     That's great! :D

     It's good to know that a software company can still turn a profit without screwing it's users. :D

     Please don't make the same mistakes caused by Makerbot selling out to Stratasys, and screwing over the Thingiverse community.

     Also, remember that you and the founders won't be at that company forever, so you may not be the people doing the screw-overs, but unless you directly address this now, your browser won't get the traction that it could get.

   • Embed this notice
     Velocipede Rider (ruari@velocipederider.com)'s status on Thursday, 08-Dec-2022 08:07:44 JST Velocipede Rider

     in reply to

     • Chris Trottier
     • Billy Smith
     • Stephan Waba :hibiscus:

     @atomicpoet @BillySmith @stephan I would agree with that.

     I have not been here that long in the grand scheme of things (I joined back in April).

     But I felt immediately got it and wondered why I (and also Vivaldi as a company) had not paid more attention before.

     Back in Opera we tried to do something that has elements of the fediverse, small web and decentralisation with the Unite project. In the end it failed but the intentions where there

     https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/opera-unite.html