DrALJONES
Report: Francesca Albanese responds to Israeli model Sarai Givaty:
When Givaty was asked about Israel's killing of Palestinian children, she said: “I am sad. But... if we don’t act, this child will grow up to become a terrorist."
Albanese responded: "This was also the argument made by Nazi officials during the Nuremberg trials to justify why they killed children during the Holocaust.”
#USPol #EUPol #news #gaza #gazaGenocide #palestine #Nuremberg .
TC Won't Give In To Lies
I'm not challenging any of the history.
I'm talking basic humanity here when I say "both sides" have brains and can use them to "... consider another's viewpoint and reject division, instead choosing cooperation and peace."
Perhaps you misread my point, or are you genuinely saying one side of this conflict cannot think, empathise and choose a different path?
Aral Balkan
@TCatInReality @DrALJONES I understand where you’re trying to say but here’s why it can be understood differently:
> My point applies to both Israelis and Palestinians, that we can consider another's viewpoint and reject division, instead choosing cooperation and peace.
Let’s replace Israelis and Palestinians with Nazis and Jews, Roma, disabled and gay people (some of the main victims of The Holocaust):
> My point applies to both Nazis and Jews, Roma, and disabled and gay people, that we can consider another's viewpoint and reject division, instead choosing cooperation and peace.
I think that’s a good litmus test: if there’s a statement that doesn’t make sense about the Nazis or fascists in general, it likely doesn’t make sense for Israel instead.
Unless we somehow think Israel isn’t a fascist country that’s committing genocide and is different to Nazi Germany in those fundamental aspects of its being.
The reason we cannot consider another’s viewpoint and reject division when the other is a fascist is because their viewpoint is that certain people shouldn’t exist. You don’t consider that viewpoint or build bridges with it. We cannot all get along when some of us deny the right of others to exist.
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Every human has a brain and a capacity for thought. If anything, we all have an obligation as we grow up to inspect the assumptions we we're given as children.
While I don't like to both sides issues, it seems like a widely accepted fact that Israeli and Palestinian children are raised to fear the other.
My point applies to both Israelis and Palestinians, that we can consider another's viewpoint and reject division, instead choosing cooperation and peace.
DrALJONES
Re "My point applies to both Israelis and Palestinians"
"Bothsidesism" suggests a misunderstanding of the history of the conflict. The link is pretty clear on the topic, but there's also a lot of useful analysis about it online.
There are no equal sides in the conflict. The history spells it out. It has always been a genocide.
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Wow!
I wonder what Givaty thinks is happening in those children's upbringing that would cause them to become terrorists.
And I wonder if they give any thought into what interventions could break (or reinforce) that outcome.
DrALJONES
There's no "thought" happening with genocidal Israelis - it's the mindless reaction from their lifetime of being brainwashed.
This is essential viewing:
"It starts in kindergarten... It's everywhere... 75 years of racist indoctrination & mass militarisation."
~Miko Peled
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/the-chris-hedges-report-with-miko .
Aral Balkan
@TCatInReality @DrALJONES Thanks; I do understand what you’re saying and, of course, I agree that we must have such hope if there is going to be a different future.
That said, Israeli society is overwhelmingly in support of the ongoing genocide. Just one example from last year:
“Conducted by the Geocartography Knowledge Group for Penn State University in March 2025, the survey of 1,005 Israeli Jews paints a chilling picture of a society increasingly radicalised by religious nationalism and emboldened by war.
The poll found that 82 percent of Jewish Israelis support expelling Palestinians from Gaza and 56 percent back the expulsion of Arab citizens of Israel — up from 45 percent and 31 percent, respectively, in a similar poll in 2003.
To the question, “Do you support the idea that the IDF [Israeli army], when conquering an enemy city, should act as the Israelites did under Joshua in Jericho — by killing all of its inhabitants?”, almost half of the respondents said yes.“
https://www.trtworld.com/article/8802bc2d5043
If we’re looking for analogies, an apt one are the European colonisers of North America. And they did succeed in their genocide. And they are still there today.
But yes, I see your point and I’ve seen enough of your post to know that you’re an ally :)
TC Won't Give In To Lies
I trust we can agree that the world would be in a better place - and Netanyahu's gov would be weaker - if Givaty (or any Israeli) thought more deeply about the causes of Palestinian resistance and about more productive interventions.
If you reread my original post, I hope that comes across more clearly now. And hopefully, my subsequent posts are clear that I'm talking about individual's ability to think and change (as opposed to a gov ideology).
7/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Yes, there is a role for resistance, protest and outside pressure on a dangerous gov ideology. I'm not arguing against that - or arguing to accommodate it.
I am calling for individual empathy and change to grow the number of people who think differently. Because...we will never be able to move beyond a dangerous gov ideology without enough people who do dream of a better way.
I welcome your reply now. But I'm not interested in explaining myself further. Have a nice day.
/end
TC Won't Give In To Lies
So, back to my original point.
I was explicit in saying Israelis (and Palestinians) are humans who can consider another viewpoint and think differently.
I thought it was explicit that I meant any person - whether they support the gov position or not - can think, empathise and change.
Your substituting a gov ideology - or indeed a person's support of the gov at a given moment - for an individual's ability to think totally changes my statement.
4/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Of course, an ideology is unlikely to change. And an ideology of exclusion and/or violence is more likely to double-down rather than change. I never said, or intended, that we both side the ideologies.
So, I am trying to be clear right now, that I am saying all human beings can think, can empathise and can change. Not all will, of course. There are still neo-Nazi today.
But the more people who think and empathise, the sooner we can get beyond these dangerous ideologies.
5/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
@aral @DrALJONES
This thread started about an Israeli actress/model's comments about killing Palestinian children before they become terrorists (I am paraphrasing what she allegedly said, I have not verified the source myself).
This woman is not in gov, and I don't know how she votes. But I believe her comment reflect a very biased world view, overpowered by fear
My post was wondering if her view would change if she thought more deeply about the Pal. children and their environment
6/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Thanks for explaining your view. I have also followed your posts and have a lot of respect for your views.
But I think your response rests on a superficial assumption, that collapses under inspection. If anything, I think your comparison bolsters my point.
Please bear with me while I explain, and let's not rush to reply mid-thread.
Your assumption relies on swapping a gov ideology for all the people in it. Ie, Netanyahu gov = Israeli citizens, Nazi gov = German citizens.
1/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
Of course, govs represent their people. And govs can do bad thing, even over decades and centuries. No argument there.
But every type of gov falls. And every fascist (or apartheid) gov falls - whether thru war (Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, etc) or protest/pressure (S Africa, Chile, Hungary).
And after a gov falls, the people make a new government (yes, sometimes with external help/pressure). In every case above, citizens of that country kept running it after the fall.
2/
TC Won't Give In To Lies
And the people who ran Germany after the fall of fascism (or Italy, S Africa, Chile) were people who could imagine a different system.
Again, yes, there was outside pressure/help. But the new, better gov required citizens who had empathy & could think differently.
Right now, there are people within Israel, who think differently and press for change. Just as there were protestors in S Africa, Chile, etc and resisters inside/in exile from Germany, Italy, etc at their worst.
3/
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