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1. Embed this notice
   🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 03:09:53 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

   So I decided to post the article I wrote (linked below) on twitter and am going to dump some money into promoting it there. Gotta get some attention to this. Go boost over on twitter if you'd like.

   Eugen Rochko, CEO of Mastodon, Caves to Nazi's Agenda

   https://jeffreyfreeman.me/eugen-rochko-ceo-of-mastodon-found-to-support-nazis-agenda/

   #fediblock #mastoadmin #mastodon @Gargron

   • Embed this notice
     🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 03:13:36 JST 🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱

     in reply to

     • Floppy 💾

     @floppy Have you seen/noticed that i changed the title from the original to be more sincere to the situation. I admit the original title was indeed a bit misleading.

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Floppy 💾 (floppy@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 03:13:37 JST Floppy 💾

     in reply to

     @freemo

     I find the write-up contains (at least) two important points: The history of QOTO (with valuable background info) and Eugen's early and impactful recent reactions.

     Since the title lists only one, it might be a bit misleading ("clickbait title", as you put it). Wave you considered splitting it into two articles or use title that captures both aspects? I wonder if that might help the circulation of the article.

     (2/2)

   • Embed this notice
     Floppy 💾 (floppy@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 03:13:38 JST Floppy 💾

     in reply to

     @freemo

     Thank you for this write-up. Being around for a while, I head the rumours around QOTO and without knowing the other side of the story, rumours were all I had. Your article clears up a lot and I wish for you and QOTO that your call is being heard.

     Before reading, I struggled a bit with the title of the article, but now I get what you were going for of course.

     (1/2)

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 05:27:37 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexey Skobkin
     Alexey, I find the argument you presented analogous to shooting the messenger. telling a victim to shut up because their speaking up brings harm onto the aggressor is unjust. if denouncing an injustice is labeled as terrorism, but the injustice itself isn't called out, something's fishy. if some action would be perceived negatively, IMHO the best course of action is not to suppress the speech that calls it out so that the presumed negative action can remain unchallenged and unknown, but to get the negative action to stop
   • Embed this notice
     Alexey Skobkin (skobkin@lor.sh)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 05:27:38 JST Alexey Skobkin

     in reply to

     @freemo
     Although it doesn't look good, I'd say that it's still a clickbait. And I also think that it's dangerous to the Fediverse itself.
     Especially running a campaign in Twitter while a lot of people are trying to convince their friends to try Fediverse.
     And I'm saying Fediverse because it'll hurt not only Mastodon.

     So from some angles it looks quite similar to terrorists tactics.

     Please note that I'm not saying that removing QOTO from the list is a good thing. I'm all for the freedom of information and against spreading misinformation myself. But it still leaves some bad aftertaste.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 07:27:00 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexey Skobkin
     if you'd like to talk some more about whether publishing truthful information is ill-advised, I don't mind waiting till you're done with the strawman.
     
     nazis exist, are among us, in both society at large and in the fediverse, and they are trying to manipulate us into doing their bidding. I take that's undisputed. now, I can see why some short-term thinking might conclude it's advantageous to pretend this is not the case. I don't think it's good in the mid- or long terms. not only because it's dishonest, and if people are promised something we're unable to deliver, they will be further harmed when it hits them by surprise, but also because, when we give in to their manipulation and allow them to get us to do the injustice they demand, we become their instruments of injustice, i.e., we turn into that which we're trying to keep out.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexey Skobkin (skobkin@lor.sh)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 07:27:01 JST Alexey Skobkin

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     > analogous to shooting the messenger

     Not at all. I'm all for the cause until the messenger straps a bomb to his chest and goes into a subway.

     And if I'd be presented with a possibility to ask Eugene a question about QOTO, I'd do that.

     > telling a victim to shut up

     You're wrong again. I'm not telling to shut up. I'm telling that a big ad-supported campaign could be very harmful to the whole community. If it'd be me, I'd stick to more diplomatic ways of doing that. But still I understand the frustration behind this post.

     > if denouncing an injustice is labeled as terrorism, but the injustice itself isn't called out, something's fishy

     You can dig some history related to terrorism. If you go deep enough you can find a lot of justifying reasons for terrorists to want to get attention. Often it's related to some unjust actions by some big empire who unfairly exploits another country for example. But does it really justify terrorist which causes harm to innocent people? I'm not so sure.

     > IMHO the best course of action is to get the negative action to stop

     Yes. But saying something close to "Mastodon is supporting Nazis" isn't a good solution either.
     And sadly lot of people will get only that from this article.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 11:54:41 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexey Skobkin
     I'm trying to stick to the topic of the thread.
     I'm really not interested in the hyperbolic comparison between engaging in acts of terrorism and denouncing nazi manipulation attacks. they're not the same. not even close.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexey Skobkin (skobkin@lor.sh)'s status on Thursday, 24-Nov-2022 11:54:42 JST Alexey Skobkin

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     Wow. You not only missed the point I was talking about, but also mentioned the strawman argument (ignoratio elenchi) and then used it right away talking about Nazis regardless the fact that I didn't say anything about them at all.
     Please read what I wrote again trying to not assume that I'm attacking author of the post or to defend someone who attacks him.

     Otherwise it's pointless to continue the discussion.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 25-Nov-2022 11:00:39 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexey Skobkin
     > Threatening the whole network isn't very peaceful approach to solve the problem
     
     I agree. I only disagree as to who's threatening the network with their behavior.
     
     playing to nazi's hands and blocking instances over their manipulation is a lot more dangerous to the network than letting people out there know that we fight nazis. while the latter could slow down its growth, the former is an existential threat to the network.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexey Skobkin (skobkin@lor.sh)'s status on Friday, 25-Nov-2022 11:00:40 JST Alexey Skobkin

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     Threatening the whole network isn't very peaceful approach to solve the problem. That's what I'm talking about. And I think you know it.